EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Sugar wash info and questions

Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby bluess57 » Sat May 06, 2017 4:42 pm

Professor Green wrote: but I've got it sitting on 24 °C which is already a fair way above the optimum for this yeast.

Where'd you get that from (24C)?

My observations, I find for WBAB washes the ferment vigor of EC1118 is better/higher at the higher end of the temperature range.
For fruit washes EC1118 is vigorous enough at lower temperatures.

Lalvin EC1118 technical data sheet http://winequip.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/EC1118.pdf:-

MICROBIAL AND OENOLOGICAL PROPERTIES
• Recommended for White, Rose and Red wine production. Highly recommended for secondary fermentation.
• Saccharomyces cerevisiae var bayanus
Desirable Fermentation Temperature limits 10-30C.
• Alcohol tolerance 18% v/v *subject to fermentation conditions.
• Low Relative Nitrogen demand (under controlled Laboratory conditions)
• Short lag phase and high fermentation vigour. Cooling may be required to control this high vigour.
• Very Low production of H2 S under low YAN conditions.
• Low production of SO2 binding compounds.
• Moderate Relative potential for SO2 production (can produce high levels of SO2 under low nutrient conditions, up to 50mg/L). Generally considered to be neutral to MLF.
• Killer factor Active.
• Low foam producer.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Bumper » Sat May 06, 2017 9:07 pm

bluess57 wrote:
Professor Green wrote: but I've got it sitting on 24 °C which is already a fair way above the optimum for this yeast.

Where'd you get that from (24C)?

My observations, I find for WBAB washes the ferment vigor of EC1118 is better/higher at the higher end of the temperature range.
For fruit washes EC1118 is vigorous enough at lower temperatures.

Lalvin EC1118 technical data sheet http://winequip.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/EC1118.pdf:-

MICROBIAL AND OENOLOGICAL PROPERTIES
• Recommended for White, Rose and Red wine production. Highly recommended for secondary fermentation.
• Saccharomyces cerevisiae var bayanus
Desirable Fermentation Temperature limits 10-30C.
• Alcohol tolerance 18% v/v *subject to fermentation conditions.
• Low Relative Nitrogen demand (under controlled Laboratory conditions)
• Short lag phase and high fermentation vigour. Cooling may be required to control this high vigour.
• Very Low production of H2 S under low YAN conditions.
• Low production of SO2 binding compounds.
• Moderate Relative potential for SO2 production (can produce high levels of SO2 under low nutrient conditions, up to 50mg/L). Generally considered to be neutral to MLF.
• Killer factor Active.
• Low foam producer.


Great post, thanks!
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sat May 06, 2017 9:10 pm

From a datasheet here

I just checked the datasheet off the Lallemand web site and it (being somewhat contradictory of course) states 15 to 25.

Cheers,
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Wobblyboot » Sat May 06, 2017 9:47 pm

And the ph is?
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sat May 06, 2017 10:05 pm

Haven't measured it yet, I'm currently not in the same location as the fermenter!

Cheers,
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Sam. » Sun May 07, 2017 12:39 am

I doubt there would be much to gain running this strain hot :-B
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby wynnum1 » Sun May 07, 2017 1:58 am

If this is a sugar wash have you looked at starting at a lower gravity and adding sugar during the fermentation to give the yeast an easier go 1075 is not the best for yeast to multiply.
Is there a camera that can be used in a fermenter to view hydrometer with out opening the fermenter would be interesting to record gravity.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Aussiedownunder01 » Sun May 07, 2017 6:44 am

On sugar wash I just leave the lid sitting on that way you can lift it any time to check sg
Never had a problem
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby scythe » Sun May 07, 2017 8:15 am

Or just use a clear lid and leave the hydrometer in the fermenter.
Some members use cling wrap with a few small holes pricked into it toallow excess CO2 to escape.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 07, 2017 9:23 am

I just fill a 100ml measuring cylinder from the sample valve on my fermenter and float my hydrometer in that.

I found that leaving a hydrometer in the wash, it tended to gravitate to edge of the fermenter and I had to reach in and free it every time anyway.

Cheers,
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 07, 2017 9:34 am

wynnum1 wrote:If this is a sugar wash have you looked at starting at a lower gravity and adding sugar during the fermentation to give the yeast an easier go 1075 is not the best for yeast to multiply.


I suspect you're right with the multiplication. Next time I think I'll do a starter. I found a post Mac made in one of the yeast threads where he mentioned using just 10 grams for a 190 lite rum wash using a starter.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 07, 2017 3:13 pm

Now that I back home again...

pH is currently 4 which I guess is a touch low and the SG is currently 1.040 which hasn't changed since I read it on Wednesday.

I'd say it is well and truly stuck.

Cheers,
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby hillzabilly » Sun May 07, 2017 3:53 pm

I would warm it up ta 25'c at least and add 280gr(full pack) of lowans bakers yeast ,and tweek ya ph would also help ,I read on the snapps brennen web site that 3month ferments are not uncommon for maximum flavour ,but thats for fruit washes with similar yeast and little or no sugar added,a paint stirrer in the drill will help airation and stiring wich can help get things going with those big fermenters I have found.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 07, 2017 7:05 pm

Thanks hillzabilly.

I've added some some bi-carb soda to adjust the pH upward, given it a good stir which seemed to kick the yeast back into life again - couldn't tell if it was the yeast or the CO2 escaping after the stir that was causing it to fizz a little. I also created a yeast starter from a small amount of EC-1118 and it's fizzing away nicely again. If it stalls again, I'll go the Lowans route just to get it finished.

Cheers,
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 07, 2017 7:06 pm

Thanks to all for your suggestions and help.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby wynnum1 » Mon May 08, 2017 2:19 am

Looked up over pitching of yeast and found the crabtree-effect have never heard of this before .

http://www.newworldwinemaker.com/2010/0 ... effect-is/
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Kenster » Thu May 11, 2017 8:12 pm

Bumper, (bit off topic) with the plums, have you sussed out addition of pectinase, prior to pitching yeast. I just finished plum wash recently, with pectinase.. apparently it converts/breaks down the cells to produce more juice which can be utilised more effectively. I used EC1118, nice drop.
Also, Prof... each site for the yeast suggests different 'ideal' conditions, some say dont pitch below 12C and not Over 30C, others say between 15 and 25, and that you must create a starter at 35C, from what i have experienced, it is very tolerant of all that we tend to throw at it (at what ever temp range) , I have never made a starter but just sprinkled it on top, never had a problem - go figure.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Bumper » Thu May 11, 2017 10:43 pm

Kenster wrote:Bumper, (bit off topic) with the plums, have you sussed out addition of pectinase, prior to pitching yeast. I just finished plum wash recently, with pectinase.. apparently it converts/breaks down the cells to produce more juice which can be utilised more effectively. I used EC1118, nice drop.
Also, Prof... each site for the yeast suggests different 'ideal' conditions, some say dont pitch below 12C and not Over 30C, others say between 15 and 25, and that you must create a starter at 35C, from what i have experienced, it is very tolerant of all that we tend to throw at it (at what ever temp range) , I have never made a starter but just sprinkled it on top, never had a problem - go figure.


I did a 5 litre starter from 15g of yeast for 50 litres using apoke juice. No pectinase, as the research shows more methanol is created and for a pot still I am keen to minimise it as much as possible. I rehydrated at 35, built the starter up at 20c and pitched at 22. Running steadily at 18c at the moment.

I have used pectinase making cider but found it gave me more of a headache than non pectinase, so I don't really use it.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby Professor Green » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:24 pm

I have just siphoned off 90 litres of this wash ready for stripping this weekend - finally! I hadn't checked it since mid May as I've been busy with other things and quite frankly I got sick of checking it every few days only to discover the SG had only dropped by .002 each time.

FG is 1.010 which is a touch higher than I usually get with the bakers yeast but it smells great and, better still, tastes amazing. It's nice and dry and has a delightful grain flavour to it. Seems almost a shame to be running it for neutral rather than whisky but I'm all out of neutral...

Although it took a really really long time to finish, I'm fairly happy with the resultant beer. Ultimately, using EC1118 for a WBAB destined for whisky would be, IMO, fairly worthwhile but I don't think I would bother again if it's destined for neutral. If I do use the EC1118 again, I'll probably wait until the warmer months so I don't need to run the heat belt for months on end. Having this hold up my fermenter for such a long time has been rather painful too. And did mention I'm all out of neutral?

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: EC1118 - How Slow!!!

Postby EziTasting » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:34 pm

wynnum1 wrote:If this is a sugar wash have you looked at starting at a lower gravity and adding sugar during the fermentation to give the yeast an easier go 1075 is not the best for yeast to multiply.
Is there a camera that can be used in a fermenter to view hydrometer with out opening the fermenter would be interesting to record gravity.



blue sent me this PM the other day as he knows this is what I kinda want to do, once I know shyte and am good enough:

bluc wrote:Hey bud found something you may be interested in. I know you would like to be able to log data and I thought this may be up your alley cheers. https://tilthydrometer.com/products/brewometer it aint cheap but I don't reckon ridiculous expensive. Anyway thought I would give you a heads up :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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