Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Sugar wash info and questions

Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Valoren » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:57 pm

Hey guys, I managed to get my hands on three 220L plastic stock feed containers that I've turned into fermenters, Just wondering if anyone can give me the rough amount of ingredients for a 180 L wash, I've looked at the bird watchers TPW calculator but I have no idea if they want dried or fresh yeast.

Any help would be appreciated!
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Distillnation » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:09 pm

I'm assuming you are using the calculator here: http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/

180L
40.5kg sugar
1.768kg tomato paste
609mL lemon juice
506g yeast
1.13tsp Epsom salts

The original recipe calls for "225 grams fresh regular bakers yeast. Buy in bulk at any good health food store."

The bakers yeast, lowans, etc will do fine for the wash as far as I know. Birdwatcher did his in 80L washes so it should be fine if you are using the correct upscale.

Someone else who has done larger batches may be able to chime in though, especially since there is a lot of ingredients going into this thing.

Good luck with it though. I'd love to get some containers that size. Would save so much time.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Sam. » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:23 pm

Thats roughly what I used for my last batch of 175 Litres minus the lemon juice and epsom salts.

Finished at 990 in about a week :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Distillnation » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:31 pm

So the tomato paste was fine by itself?

Damn, that's quick! I can't see why you wouldn't do a large batch like that if you have access to a suitable sized fermenting vessel. Saves doing multiple fermentations over the course of a month or so.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby SBB » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:40 pm

Its a bastard trying to stir all that sugar in a barrel that deep to dissolve it. The first time i did it I used a canoe oar for a stirrer :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: . Its easier to mix the ingredients bar the yeast in smaller containers as a concentrate in a few batches. Tip the small batches into the 200l barrel, dilute with water, then pitch yeast.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Sam. » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:55 pm

Yep, thats all I used mate you put all sorts of things into the recipe to do all different sorts of things. At the end of the day it works for me and i'm not a chemist :teasing-tease:

It can be a bitch to use bigger fermenters, once you have it in place and full your not moving it anywhere.

Also harder to maintain temp control, all depends on what your happy doing :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby 1 2many » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:59 pm

+1 SBB thats a great idea :clap: :clap: You have saved me a future nightmare . :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby bt1 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:24 pm

+1 SBB,

make as a small batch then water up later, using aerated aged water if you can.

Done a few larger ones and reckon it's not a simple case of x times original recipe. It's all personal choice some want a result, some want to get a better result.

In 200lt fermenter be lucky if I used 200ml lemon juice and 1kg+ of TP is over kill...it settles it doesn't stay dispersed. I used =450gm 1 jar.

As for yeast depends on what your using a can of Lowans about 245gm is way plenty...it will grow to the conditions permit i.e. it "optimises" itself given you allow hydration and growth phase time of approx. 20 - 30 mins. and check the basics like temp and pH.

Epson salts is realistically only of value during growth phase of yeast. A heaped teaspoon would be plenty.

Little point in adding the extra which impacts on taste for no gain imho.

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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby MacStill » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:36 pm

I use a paint stirrer on my 500w drill, bamix is for sheilas :teasing-neener:
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Distillnation » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:48 pm

Leaving out as much as possible while still getting to the end result is good. Like said above, it will more than likely result in a cleaner end product. I suppose there's a point where you could end up adding just as much if not more additives than a turbo wash, and we all know how that works out.

I'll have to make note of all this so I can perfect it later on.

As for the recipe calculator, I do agree that the yeast is excessive as that is something that will grow itself. Making a starter would probably be better than overloading with yeast.

I'm actually sitting here watching over a mates still while he had to go out quickly and it's running the "triple distilled turbo" yeast. It may be coming out at 90%+ but it really doesn't smell any better than the tpw we did a couple weeks back. Although the yeast was from someone else as a gift, so no money was wasted on our behalf, it definitely seems like we could have made a bigger batch for half the price and gotten a nicer result.

Admittedly, when mixing with essences, the main mindset the guys here have is that the quicker it ferments the quicker it can be ran. But I'm slowly trying to convince them otherwise. I've even got them thinking about an allbran /weetbix wash next :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby SBB » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:01 pm

But of value never the less.
Quote:
The importance of magnesium to proper cellular function cannot be overstated. Deficiency of the nutrient results in disease in the affected organism. In single-celled organisms such as bacteria and yeast, low levels of magnesium manifests in greatly reduced growth rates. In magnesium transport knockout strains of bacteria, healthy rates are maintained only with exposure to very high external concentrations of the ion.[14][15] In yeast, mitochondrial magnesium deficiency also leads to disease.[16]

Nuvver thing here that is kinda interesting.
http://www.ftb.com.hr/40/40-199.pdf
The more I read about it seems important in molasses washes, using bakers yeast as well. I think it has to do with the amount of calcium in molasses, To many big words in some of these documents for a burnt out old truck driver, but i think thats the guts of it.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby bt1 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:02 pm

Nice work Dis,

A weetbix makes a nice drop...

to convince the lads re costs/speed try this...

get 2 x $20 notes fold in half then ignite.

Watch it burn say ah well, and go make a TPW on the reduced budget...simple fast and costs about the same.

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Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby BackyardBrewer » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:18 pm

Turbos smell much much worse than TPW. It's designed to make ethanol fuel, so the highest abv in the fastest time with no consideration for taste.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Distillnation » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:20 pm

@SBB - there's definitely a need for some form of nutrient when working with higher alcohol levels. It's just like you've all said above, it's a matter of finding the minimal yet optimal amount for getting a good end result without over stressing the yeast or leaving behind lots of end products in the wash that won't get used up.
I remember a book on one of the brew forums that talked about yeast in great detail, it was overwhelming the amount of information that could be told about yeast. I think that if someone wanted to read it they could come up with a great wash that differs from the main ones used here, but whether or not we will see it happen any time soon is another thing.

@bt1 - thanks haha, it took me a while to convince them that you could make a wash with tomato paste, let alone weetbix :))

I am happy to say that they are interested in molasses and grain washes, but that can wait a bit longer. I haven't even had a chance to do one yet.

That's not a bad idea haha. I actually convinced them by going out with $10 and coming back with yeast, sugar, paste and citric acid and when the weird looks came on their face, I said "this here will make 100l of wash, and it will be some of the best neutral you will have ever tasted".

It worked for a while, but it's hard to compete with a yeast that gets done in 24-48 hours if it's just going to be blocked out with essence anyway.

He's getting a nice 2" still made up so it may just make him think twice about what he can get out of it. I think a UJSM would be great to show just how important a good wash is.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Distillnation » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:23 pm

BackyardBrewer wrote:Turbos smell much much worse than TPW. It's designed to make ethanol fuel, so the highest abv in the fastest time with no consideration for taste.


Thus "triple distilled" turbo wash had an almost acidic smell to it. It smelt strong of alcohol, but it was just that. It didn't make me think "hmm, I wonder what it tastes like", but rather "wow that burns the nostrils".
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Camikaze » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:22 am

bt1 wrote:+1 SBB,

make as a small batch then water up later, using aerated aged water if you can.

bt1


Hey bt, just curious on your aging process for the water. Heavy charr, toasted, dominos etc. I've googled it and can't find anything. Curious to know your methods. Did you age it at barrell strength??











:laughing-rolling: Happy birthday mate! :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Distillnation » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:04 am

Happy Birthday bt1!
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Valoren » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:47 pm

As far as I know Lowans will ferment to a max of 14 % more realisticly 12 13%
but I sdon't want to push the yeast too far, do you guy know how much Lowans red tin yeast I'd need to add, since the birdwatchers calculator recommends fresh. I use lowans for baking and it hasn't failed me yet. I see no reason why I can't just start it with a little wash then pitch it. the question is the amount, can anyone here give me an educated idea? And do i stick to the rest of the birdwatchers calculator advice or can I get away with less lemon and Tomo paste?


For temprature control I'm using aquarium heaters, 200 watts. ten bucks a pop from Ebay.
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby SBB » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:40 pm

MY advise would be stick with the Lowans ( any other Dried Bakers Yeast should work), and use what the calc says, Its a tried and proven recipe used by thousands, possibly tens of thousands world wide. If it was a bad recipe it wouldn't be so popular.
25L wash needs 80 grams yeast.
25 x 7 = 175L....... close to your 180.
7 x 80grams = 560 grams
Keep it at 28-30C
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Re: Ingredients for a large TPW wash?

Postby Valoren » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:35 pm

Distillnation wrote:I'm assuming you are using the calculator here: http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/

180L
40.5kg sugar
1.768kg tomato paste
609mL lemon juice
506g yeast
1.13tsp Epsom salts

The original recipe calls for "225 grams fresh regular bakers yeast. Buy in bulk at any good health food store."

The bakers yeast, lowans, etc will do fine for the wash as far as I know. Birdwatcher did his in 80L washes so it should be fine if you are using the correct upscale.

Someone else who has done larger batches may be able to chime in though, especially since there is a lot of ingredients going into this thing.

Good luck with it though. I'd love to get some containers that size. Would save so much time.


If you are after containers look up 200 L stock feed containers on Ebay or go after 220 Plastic drums, They have a screw in lid with an O ring so it's air tight, the only thing you need to do is drill a hole for the grommet and shove an airlock in it and you've got a fermenter, you can pick these things up as cheap as 12 dollars in some cases. Try and get the huge plastic barrels that have contained olives, since all it's had is olives in brine they are easy to clean, gerkins barrels are also handy.
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