Sweetness in Neutrals

[Linny]

Im thinking of moving away from TPW ,,, dont get me wrong Its great and works well.... but im starting to get picky with my neutral and finding it with a sweet taste and until i get really good at genuine mashes my stock is currently made up of essences. does the allbran or weetbix carry that sweetness ??

I mix mostly scotches and rums....

[jasonc2861]

Try the weetbix,or cornflake, :handgestures-thumbupleft: it's not as sweet,not that I find tpw too sweet.also the pumkin wash is a good one to try as well,,very smooth,not to sweet,,maybe you could carbon filter to take any taste etc out of it,or do strip runs then a spirit run.weetbix and corn flake washes are my fav at the moment.did 2 runs over the weekend,both 20 ltr weetbix washes,both turned out exceptional,,going to water them down tonight and taste,,ill let you know how it goes.

[Linny]

So im not the only one that finds this slightly sweet ??? I find it excellent for bourbon, redskins vodkas and liquers etc... but when i mix it with a scotch /rum ... it just comes through... was thinking that it was my cuts or the way i distill it or something

[bt1]

Howdy,

Weetbix doesn't seem to carry a sweetness. It's flatter like dull, earthy which imho is a good base for essences anyway.

It has a residual wheat effect, most wheats are earthy flatter spirits.

Consider if it's rums or bourbons going half way with a grain/sugar for bourbons or a small volume molasses sugar head. House mate has done the later to good effect and I lived on grain/sugar heads for years.

It's simple cost effective and provide a good late ageing base for bourbon styles. So a UJSM by type.

Typically with the 10% throw your only replacing 250ml of each grain per wash and at about gen 6 a complete change I've found avoids that dead /dank/flat perished grain effect.

Sour mashing adds some flavour after about gen 3 but buggas the pH so you need to adjust for that. I use bi-carb. The work practices around a grain sugar head are simple and easy to manage so it adds little in terms of wash prep.

On sweetness specifically its a plat ate thing but a few issues to consider:
try ageing at 70% abv as it pulls the tannins and stronger flavours and less sugar
user American not French oak as flavour is more "strict/firm"
Dark chars carry less sugars than med toasts
Add to 5lt ageing spirit 6 whole pepper corns, either black (my pref ), green or white- adds bite
Pay attention to your blending cutting water an Alkaline base adds a flatter palate, an acidic water tend to make it extremely lively and even "heady" can use this for a scotch to good effect.

A scotch really needs some peated flavour carry through in the base imho. You can buy very good peated/smoked palt/medium/deep caramel malts that are already smoked.
If time is no object split a batch and test timber choices. A American raw oak strip takes the head edge off quickly but left too long it goes dull. Char for colour and edge, Toast for med colour and sugars. Sherry not recommended as it mellows and sweetens something your not keen on.

If you want just colour and a sharp edge try boiling the American oak in a weak vinegar soln with water for less than 1 min, then charring to preference ... colour, timber flavour but fuck all sugar.

The std malt cans if added can really spark up a scotch..i use Coopers Amber 1/4 can weekly and it adds depth, smell, I know this sounds odd but "thicker" c/f a straight Irish on grain/sugar.

If you need mouth feel Glycerine is ok in small amounts. Take a sub batch to test this. A timber strip quickly boiled with vinegar/ water 1/2 stick is a good weekly test add it, check for that sharp edge your seeking.

I'm most likely to draw comment but I'd also add spirit aged in glass is firmer/sharper than that aged in SS. It's a perception I've held for a few years can't quantify it but I see it as an issue. I put bourbon styles in SS for this reason.

a few things to consider.
bt1

[BackyardBrewer]

What does the pepper corn add for profile? Also not sure what the line:

A timber strip quickly boiled with vinegar/ water 1/2 stick is a good weekly test add it, check for that sharp edge your seeking.

means?

[Linny]

That's awesome BT... I find the next challenge is aging and getting flavours. I do want to move away from essence but I do feel that every noobie travels this path . its great with your experience. Cheers

[bt1]

Pepper adds some bite..width of feel, sides of tongue, just don't over do it.

On the timber when your prep'ing for toasting/ char and have planed off the back exposed side to make sure you get no spray residuals from the winery days, I boils American in a weak vinegar water...it strips any sugar/sharper is best I could describe it as. This prior to toasting charring.

It can be added and removed depending on taste.

Don't forget the general guide is 80% of flavour comes from timber and ageing and that's the fair margin to play with.

bt1

[emptyglass]

Dude, if you want bourbon, just do a UJ style wash. Add corn insted of tomato paste.
You got a pot still...
:think:

Might find a TPW through a pot isn't stripping all the flavor.

[Linny]

Yeah eg. Done a ujsm through the bubbler... But I also have a small cm refluxer and a 2 inch pot... Also have a VM 3/4 built but got distracted by the bubbler... I was originally thinking because I still make neutral and essences since I haven't really nailed the "genuine" style ...

Should finish the VM and sell everything but the bubbler lol

[emptyglass]

Time to update the avitar mate.

So are you running the tpw through the bubbler?
Maybe try it through twice, if that dosn't work, go the bourbon!

[Linny]

I still use the little cm for the neutrals . I haven't got the bubbler set up properly..... Yet lol... One day I'll update Lol ... Still on my phone

[emptyglass]

Sort of off topic, but the time spent doing one small cm run could be well spent getting the bubbler going.
Just my opinion, its going to do a better job on both tpw and uj.

No good having a pile of copper sitting around doing nothing. The bubbler, I mean :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Linny]

DW I'm working on it :handgestures-thumbupleft: hopefully Mac sent the solution today :D

[MacStill]

DW I'm working on it :handgestures-thumbupleft: hopefully Mac sent the solution today :D

Sure did & a couple of little extras for being a good customer ;-)

[Linny]

So a happy easter yeah ! LOL ... Easter is the happy time yeah ?  :doh: Lol never good with religion

[emptyglass]

Nice equipment list mate!
You'll be a home spirit likker snob in no time!

[Brendan]

Linny, some people actually use the all bran/weet-bix wash as a faux-whisky.

Instead of mixing your essences with neutral, maybe try that wash through the bubbler and don't worry about azeo, just take it at 90%ABV and put your essences in :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Linny]

:think:

[GrainFedPoleSmoker]

mate stay away fro the essence, oj and straight is way better enjoy your product, stop watering it down with shit, no offence but if you have to us that shit , then you need to worry more about your cut....

[Linny]

Yeah since this was soooo last year :laughing-rolling: i used a bubbler turned out i had a reflux issue which smeared the heads and was fixed... And yes i did turn into a ag likker snob :))