Getting the most from my sugar head wash.

[Dominator]

I have been 'stillin for a few months and while I am very happy with my product I have noticed variations in the yield between runs, with some failing completely. While I have mostly only done rum I am sure this will relate to most sugar heads. I have done heaps of reading but can be hard to locate information as it is spread all over the place.

PH? I recently got myself a digital PH meter. I have been aiming for a PH around 4.5 - 5. Is this about right? I have been adjusting by dissolving about a couple of table spoons of bi-carb in about 250ml of water and adding that to my wash then leaving for 15-30mins and retesting. Does that sound about right? I have only been testing PH just as I put the wash down. Should I be testing/adjusting while it is fermenting or as it slows down/finishes?

Nutrients, I don't have any DAP so I have been using tomato paste @ at approx 2 table spoons per 25-30L wash. Again, I only add it at the beginning of the wash, is there any benefit to feeding my yeast mid ferment? Also I have been considering boiling my yeast after I have finished with it ie. after 5-6 gens, and using it as nutrient. Would this help? Do I add this as well as DAP?
I have seen a few people use vitamin B, is this also in conjunction with DAP or does it replace it?

Thanks in advance.

[Sam.]

The PH of your wash will go down as it ferments, so yeah you might want to check it's not getting too low or it might not ferment out fully.

Yes you can feed your wash nutrients during the ferment if you think it needs it.

Dead yeast is a good nutrient :handgestures-thumbupleft:

If you are using DAP you probably don't really need Vitamin B but it may add a bit extra, you won't taste the difference if you do add it :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[BackyardBrewer]

Why not do a side by side? I wouldn't add boiled yeast and DAP in the same batch. Try a batch with DAP and then a batch with yeast and see what the gravity is at the end of both?

DAP is pretty cheap and easy and quicker than boiling the shit out of yeast... But the yeast is pretty much free so try em side by side?

[Ducatiboy Stu]

What is your starting gravity of your wash

What yeast are you using and how much.

What temp are you pitching yeast

[Dominator]

What is your starting gravity of your wash

What yeast are you using and how much.

What temp are you pitching yeast

I have mostly done rum so far and I don't bother with SG as the molasses contains so many unfetmentables.

Using Lowans Bakers yeast, I usually pitch around 30oC, however I never have any worries with my first generation, it is once I get to about the 3rd gen that I run into a bit of trouble. (I don't add any more yeast after the first gen)

P.S. Nice idea BB, I will give that a go and report back.

[bt1]

Howdy,

DAP is a base yeast food providing nitrogen mainly. It also impacts on pH as well but at the rate we add it or should, it's not a significant factor.

Boiled yeast is adding a few base chemical for yeast but mainly amino acids /proteins for replication. If your re culturing/re using yeast it well worth adding.

Normally at the pitch rates we use and for new start washes this realistically ain't an issue. White Labs say their 11gm packets add 70 -140M yeast cells with a viability of 90+%...plenty.

multi B tablets crushed add a core yeast needed vitamin source that's not present in DAP and well worth adding.

TP is a general wide brush food source, it's ok but not my pref.

Reading your last post sounds like a pH issue. Over on MD, Dr. Who has a excellent write up on using a buffer to control pH. Just adding Bicarb on it's own to tweak pH really doesn't give you a long term (wash run time) fix. For a sugar grain head reckon it worth 1.5pH points at least and stays there given yeast best chance.

One note of caution for ppl doing sugar /grain heads. Starting a wash which is near neutral (grain, water, sugar) then adding bicarb can push your wash alkaline with a increased risk of ammonia production by yeast in a alkaline enviro.

Fermentation due to acids produced will progressively go acidic it's more pronounced on a rum wash I've found than a sugar/grainhead.

bt1

[Dominator]

Thanks bt, that's the kind if info I was chasing. I will definitely look up that thread on MD. I don't do any ph adjustment on my first generations, besides some citric acid. Previously I have used bi-carb for adjustment but I was cleaning the shed the other day and found 12kg of calcium carbonate that my missus uses for her horses. That should last me a while. Haha.

[Ducatiboy Stu]

Yest does not like high alc as it stresses it. I think the prob you are having is that your yeast is getting stressed due to being in a high alc environment. Bakers yeast is dont the typr.of yeast to gen handle lots of high alc %.When brewing big high alc beer, say 10%alc it is you are best to use a yeast that will handle the highe alc without stressing as much. Even then after 2-3 gens its perfromance is diminished due to the amount od stress it has been under.

My 2c and something to think about

[bt1]

Stu got a few issues with your last post bloke...

My 1st gen Lager yeast too six weeks to ferment out a 60lt wash. At gen 8 it's less than 1.2 weeks and that's at mid winter unheated @ room temp.

Yeasts over several gens acquire/tailor to their environment. To suggest at gen 2 -3 it "diminishes" is not my experience.

A good yeast starter with plenty of DME to get the yeast cell count up is all that is needed. Typically a yeast count diminishes over successive gens...easily fixed allow it to re gen and your away. A good yeast starter is all that's required Don't forget you originally pitched 50M+ - 100M cells ....

I've personally used and would recommend:

Lager yeast past gen 4 currently upto gen 8...fast as a hot yeast , no heating, room temp mid winter in Adelaide
EDV493 for rums ...past gen 8 onwards gets a few off flavours
Windsor Ale yeast gen 20 + something ??? ...most robust yeast known

As to stress... high alco levels 10% plus causes a yeast to go dormant, for std yeast. I've two whisky dedicated yeasts that easily run to the 15 - 17% mark. The biggest issue with yeast not performing is not alco levels but lack of nutrition...

As to Lowans yeast I have a stored version gen 20+ I used last summer. This beast at 28c will eat 8 -9 kg sugar, 1kg DME and any grain bed you care to name in under 4 days....fact! No off tastes, no crap, 24 x7 x 52 :handgestures-thumbupleft: It produces roughly 11 - 12% not bad in my books.

A yeast that's been yeast bombed from previous brew is a new beast...it carries no enviro stress and happily roots and multiplies to oblivion.

Yeast is about 2 things... food source and care ...get that semi right and your good to gen 8+ and faster and lower finishing SG. really get it right...well not there yet.

Look after your yeasts and you'll pick up 2- 3 abv points, in a quicker time and great product to drink.

yeast nutter,
bt1

[Ducatiboy Stu]

Fully understand that you can make several gens of yeast. I have done so. My hiigher alc beer i would wash and make a.starter so that the yeast was in peak condition. I.allways try to pitch when at high krausen.

Sure you can keep a yeast for many gens, but it does need looking after.

My point was more that maybe dom was just placing a stresed yeast into a new wash and it could not cope.

[Ducatiboy Stu]

Note. Trying to type on phone so.please excuse spelink and punkchewation

[drunkmore]

Note. Trying to type on phone so.please excuse spelink and punkchewation

Mucking afazed it let you write that with out suggesting something weird


Thank you gentlemen I once again have learned another helpful piece of information.