30 ABV run - fluctuating temp t500

[poompy]

i only run mine now with low wines (approx 40%, 20L worth) never had this problem. I still use the lower temp as a gauge. I let it hover around 50deg. I find at this temp the output comes out fine (92-93%) no steam.

I have found with mine that this works the best for me
- turn it on and watch the upper temp, turn on the cooling prior to it hitting 50deg. This was most important for me. If i did it to late it was never able to go into full reflux, there would be still a few drops here and there coming out.
- let it run in full reflux for 15-20min, the top temp will have settled in at this point (does for me)
- slowly let the fores and heads come off
- run a little faster (lower temp at 50deg) for the rest of the run.

[drunkmore]

Puking is when your wash foams up in the boiler and the foam/wash makes it into your still/column. With a pot still it will literaly puke your wash out of the condenser and contaminate your distillate.
If you read something and arn't sure what it means, check here: Glossary of Terms. It is in the newbie section. However, whem looking up this link I realised 'Puke' is not in the glossary of terms. Maybe one of the mods could add it.

Cheers Dominator I had not thought of looking there before asking the question then I searched and got my answer any way.
I have to admit I have never heard of it before. I have only ever had 50 ltr boiler with biggest charge being 30 ltr tpw.
Sorry for the thread high jack.
Back on topic
Has any body else with a T 500 ever had this problem ?
Seriously seems to me that its either flooding, (as I suggested earlier) or as Sam and liv said surge boiling.
One other issue mentioned on STill spirits site is column being straight I'm guessing they mean plumb / vertical. Not curved.

[coollinz]

Could also be where the lower temp gauge is inserted into the bottom part of the column. If it's inserted too far, it will cause the water flow to be interrupted and erratic and cause fluctuations in temp. Did with mine. All I did was not insert it as far in as it and the water flow was a lot better with stable temps. Took me a while to figure it out, might be the same problem.

[vqstatesman]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Sam, yes I do use ceramic noodles in the boiler.

Just to cover off the comment about the second temp probe, the model of t500 I use is the newer one which only has one temp gauge. It measures the coolant output temp.

I attempted to rule out the puking last night but attempting another rerun but with the boiler only half full. Just to be real sure I poured in half a bottle of defoaming agent AND a couple of tablespoons of oil. The f**ker still ran like sh*t!

I have recently cleaned and repacked the column and made sure it wasn't over packed also.

So today I rang back the distributor (imake) explained everything and she was rather unhelpful. She claims there is NOTHING that can go wrong with the t500 as "there are no moving parts", and as I previously mentioned she also explained how when in operation the unit vacuum seals itself so the leaking when cold and rinsing is no issue. I'm not impressed :( She gave me her email address and asked me to send her an email which she will forward onto their technical support.

Below is the email I sent, can't wait to see what they come back with:

As per our discussion can you please investigate or refer on my matter. Just to reiterate I'm experiencing the following symptoms:

*Temperature output from condenser fluctuates by more than 10 degrees (in cycles over 5 minute period).
*Alcohol excessively refluxes and builds up in column then surges out - this happens in cycles in conjunction with above temp variation.
*Output yield is low in volume and low in ABV.
*When rinsing out inverted column excess water flows from top of condenser seal. - Please note my T500 worked flawlessly for approx 6 months prior to this excessive leak being noticed. Since this occurred I have not been able to complete a successful run.

I have troubled shooted by checking the following:

*Condenser and saddles cleaning repacking (ensureing is not over packed)
*Checked input water flow to ensure is consistantly approx 500ml/minute
*Ensured im using a needle valve regulator on tap
*Ensured wash is not at fault by:
* Rerunning already collected distillate (diluted with water)
* Tested with boiler only half full
* Ensured defoaming agent in use

I have genuinely invested significant time, effort and research to resolve this matter. I'm certain the condenser column must be the problem as everything else I can think of has been ruled out. As you can imagine this has now also caused significant loss of product resulting in personal financial loss.

[drunkmore]

Excellent
Love that answer a " it can't fail there's no moving parts!!"

As you can imagine this has now also caused significant loss of product resulting in personal financial loss

Not to mention not having any thing to drink :doh: :crying-blue:
I like that line. Can I use it?
Keep us posted

[SBB]

Id just like her to explain exactly were this vacuum is in the still that maked the leak ok.

[Yummyrum]

That is LM still so it must have a vent in the top.Otherwise it would explode if you had the takeoff valve closed

Yummy the only valve on these stills is for the water flow.

my bad .was thinking it was an Ultra pure :whistle:

On this page it said
"When I am cleaning my T500, water runs out from the crack between the plastic at the top and the metal tower, should this happen? Will spirit escape during distilling?

Yes this will happen during cleaning as there is no seal at the top of the tower between the top cap and the stainless steel condenser. This does not have any effect on the operation of the still, as the reflux process causes a vacuum effect sucking all vapour from the tower to the condenser. "

Id just like her to explain exactly were this vacuum is in the still that maked the leak ok.

Its not explained very well .Sometimes all the simplified explanations just conger up the wrong image of whats going on

[vqstatesman]

When I first purchased my t500 I packed the column as per instructions (video). It ran like a charm for months with many runs.

When the problem first occurred I unpacked it, cleaned it and repacked it- No change. Just to be sure it wasn't overpacked I took a few ceramic noodles out and repacked it -No change.

Today I had this notion and wondered how well it would run with MUCH less packing? So I unpacked it and repacked it with 80% of the noodles. Started it up and WTF is running like a charm! It's been running for an hour with no problems, let's see how this pans out.

I'm totally blown away, its running rock solid no problems. So I'm a little unsure what the problem was. If I had overpacked it then all I can say is on the instruction video that over pack the hell out of it!

Thanks everyone for the advice and tips all the same :)

[Sam.]

Are you running the same wash as before?

[vqstatesman]

Are you running the same wash as before?

Yep.

[SBB]

The point I was trying to make Yummy is that these stills are supposed to be sealed at the top and should not leak there,
As far as i see it this woman is talking garbage, there is no vacuum in that still to stop the leak.

VQ your right , the instructions say to run the T500 tight packed, Ive always run mine that way and its worked fine so far.
I would suggest that when you next run it you look very carefully around the top of the column, You could well see high abv alc dripping from the same place as the water leaks from when you clean it. I had that very problem my self, you have to look pretty carefully as 92% alc evaporates very quickly on a hot column.

[Yummyrum]

Pleased that VQS has got it sorted.

SBB .I thought these were a LM still is this correct ? or are they something else ? Not trying to be a pain ,just trying to learn what these are ..I just figured that if it is LM than there would not be a requirement to seal it at the top.As you correctly pointed out ,there is no takeoff valve so safety isn't an issue but if it is LM then I see no reason why you need to have it sealed at the top .

The Vacuum I think they are referring to is simply that the vapour condenses as it hits a cooler area and therefore there is not likely any vapour that can escape

[DaveZ]

They are a CM still yummy.

[SBB]

No problem Yummy, I know the whole VM, CM, LM, thing can take a bit to get your head around, or does for me anyway.
These still are open to the atmosphere via the product condenser, they run a small lieburg type condenser on the outside of the column, thats the little skinny gizmo on the right in the photo . They are controlled by water flow going to a small condenser coil ( read reflux condencer) in the top of the column, the water flow to this coil is controlled by a small needle valve. More water through the reflux condenser equates to less product , or if enough water to full reflux. Less water you get more product. For my money they are a cooling management still or CM
They a fiddly bloody things to operate, very small movements of the needle valve can have a large impact on whats going on.

[Yummyrum]

Cheers SBB and Dave ,so its CM, Yup agree ,the leaks a worry . BTW they are a weird looking still :wtf: and got to love that plastic hose :violence-smack: