PH of washes

Sugar wash info and questions

PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:00 pm

Just got a ph tester and tested a failed/ stalled NGW at a ph of 3.
First thoughts were this was way too acidic for yeast to thrive, but.... Just checked my tpw's and they range from
Finished tpw : ph of 3
3 day old tpw :ph of 2.9
12hr old tpw : ph of 2.8
All going great guns
I know tomato paste is quite acidic and citric acid, hmmm, might be acidic too :think:
For those who check ph, what do your washes sit at?
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Re: PH of washes

Postby rumdidlydum » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:54 pm

That seems very low :think:
Just check what your water is im pretty sure it should be slightly alkaline.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:06 pm

Not sure what type of ph meter you have but did you calibrate it to a buffer first, or connect and calibrate with the temperature probe as well (if it has one)?
All being well with the probe I guess it is possible. Lemon juice is usually about a 2 on the ph scale and a ph of 3 is about 10 times less acidic than that. If you're not using dunder though it sounds like you're putting too much of something acidic in there.
If you're willing to give it a try do the washes taste particularly sour or fairly normal? You should be able to taste a 3.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Meatheadinc » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:12 pm

Seem too low to me.
+1 on calibration
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:34 pm

Calibrated as per instructions, first at 6.86@25deg then at 4@25degrees, test seemed abut strange to me, one sachet of powder into undetermined amount of water. Will try with a known ph sample tomorrow, my man google says citric acid sits around 2.2
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:00 am

Should be able to buy a small bottle of buffer relatively cheap to check and if its one of those little glass bulb type ones check how its supposed to be stored when not in use.
Undetermined amount of water doesn't sound right at all. You'd never be able to accurately test the ph of a solution (titrate) without knowing the volume let alone mix to a predetermined strength.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby scythe » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:26 am

Amount of water wont change the pH, only its molarity (concentration).
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:51 am

scythe wrote:Amount of water wont change the pH, only its molarity (concentration).

Yeah I remember moles, did my head in at school. So you think it shouldn't matter on volume of water, within reason
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:19 am

Well I'll admit I'm a little rusty with my chemistry but the ph of a 0.1 molar solution of citric acid should be different to a 0.5 molar solution cause there's more free hydrogen banging about in there even if the acid only gives partial disassociation. Like dropping a teaspoon full in a cup and a teaspoon in a swimming pool.
Anyway, if your going to mix some citric acid powder make 5% (e.g. 5 grams powder in 100 mls water) should give you a ph of pretty close to 1.9.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:42 am

Doubleuj wrote:Calibrated as per instructions, first at 6.86@25deg then at 4@25degrees, test seemed abut strange to me, one sachet of powder into undetermined amount of water. Will try with a known ph sample tomorrow, my man google says citric acid sits around 2.2


I just noticed, are you saying that you calibrated at 2 different pH's with a single solution?
Even if that's a buffer type powder (probably) which should be reasonably stable within a reasonable quantity of water you cant cal for two different pH's with the same solution. At least not on any meter I've used.
Btw, distilled or very pure (clean) water should be pretty close to 7 pH so might be a quick way of checking out your meter if you've got some lying around e.g. For the wife's ironing.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby wynnum1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:55 am

PH of food should be constant like Coca-Cola or tomato paste so if you know what the PH is then use that as a test.
What about using test strips PH meters are good if doing lots of tests but if you buy a cheap PH meters you get what you pay for and has a limited life.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:26 am

it was two different ph's in two separate glasses of water, tap water only, ill try some distilled water tonight and various household items, cirtic acid, lemon juice etc.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby wynnum1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:23 am

What water did you use for NGW that stalled tap water can be nasty depending on what is put into it on the day if water system is contaminated they increase the chemicals .
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:07 am

wynnum1 wrote:What water did you use for NGW that stalled tap water can be nasty depending on what is put into it on the day if water system is contaminated they increase the chemicals .

Yeap, tap water, plus we live directly down hill from the water treatment plant so we would be first to get the nasties.
but tap water works fine for tpw?
the NGW that stalled was gen 3, gen 1 worked great, gen 2 I added some dunder and more yeast and it eventually stalled at about 1.10, gen 3 failed to ever start, stalling at 1.80.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:37 pm

Hmm, white vinegar tests as 2.4, seems pretty much as expected. I think my ph meter works and my tpw is just bloody acidic!
image.jpg

Any other ideas? Temp adjustment?
Tap water tests at around 8 so abit alkaline,
I use the cheap black and gold tomato paste.
But what is the ph of other peoples washes? Is perhaps a slightly acidic wash actually normal? I know Rumdiddlyum said he keeps rum at about 5.1
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:25 pm

Got anything to adjust the ph of a small quantity of the wash and try to repitch a little of the yeast?
If it works you can repeat with the rest of the wash rather than ditch it.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:38 pm

Already ditched the NGW, the tpw's are going strong
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Re: PH of washes

Postby WTDist » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:45 pm

i havent got a PH meter and im up to gen 5 or 6 with CFW. I keep wondering when its going to stall on me with 4L of backset each time from 25L wash :shifty:
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Re: PH of washes

Postby andybear » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:43 pm

Doubleuj wrote:
But what is the ph of other peoples washes? Is perhaps a slightly acidic wash actually normal? I know Rumdiddlyum said he keeps rum at about 5.1


That's the exact ph meter that I'm using. And if it's calibrated correctly it works fine. I checked it against two others at work that cost about $500 ea and got the same readings. It's important to keep the bulb wet, you should be using some of the ph4 buffer to do this. Pour some into the lid with some cotton wool.
But your numbers don't look right to me either. My rum will stall below 4.5
I'm having a hard time now with ph of 4 in my rum wash. I then added about 800g of calcium carbonate (45lt wash) and got it to 4.2 . It still isn't fermenting.
Anyway I reckon you need some more buffer 4.0 and always rinse the probe with tap water and shake off lightly before dipping into any sample. Calibrate it with the 4 and let us know how you go.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby wynnum1 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:31 am

When calcium carbonate is added to deacidfy creates salt what acid is in the dunder .
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