PH of washes

Sugar wash info and questions

Re: PH of washes

Postby andybear » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:25 pm

wynnum1 wrote:When calcium carbonate is added to deacidfy creates salt what acid is in the dunder .

I'm Not sure what that means, I'm no chemist by a long shot. So do you think there is a better option to de-acidify.? This low ph business is killing me. I've dumped 3 batches already and this is looking like the 4th going down the drain. :crying-blue: :crying-blue:
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Re: PH of washes

Postby wynnum1 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:53 am

That if the backset is acidic and calcium carbonate is added to nutralise the acid that salt is produced and with the nutri grain has its own salt .The water you use if tap water may have minerals and salt and after generations the backset will get more of these element also if you take backset out hot and use to disolve sugar it will have more disolved salt and minerals .
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:13 am

Try the ph before you add backset next time and adjust ph with your backset accordingly.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:13 am

Ok what's going on here then? Tpw put down yesterday
Tap water ph8.1
Water and sugar ph8.1
Water/sugar/tom paste ph 6.0
25L water/ 5kg sugar 200g tomato paste 1/4tsp citric ph 5.2
Pitch yeast still ph 5.2
SG of 1.070
All sounds normal to me

Check it today.... Ph of 3.3 ~x(
Still bubbling away happy as larry
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Re: PH of washes

Postby wynnum1 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:27 am

The tap water can be treated with vitamin C to remove the clorination and if left for a couple of days will disipate the vitamin c
vitamin C, ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.ph ... ter.21735/
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Re: PH of washes

Postby rumdidlydum » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:47 pm

Doubleuj wrote:Ok what's going on here then? Tpw put down yesterday
Tap water ph8.1
Water and sugar ph8.1
Water/sugar/tom paste ph 6.0
25L water/ 5kg sugar 200g tomato paste 1/4tsp citric ph 5.2
Pitch yeast still ph 5.2
SG of 1.070
All sounds normal to me

Check it today.... Ph of 3.3 ~x(
Still bubbling away happy as larry


Thats strange :think:
Maybe the yeast has evoluted to the progressive decrease in ph?
Cant wait to see what the ph is at 990 :-B
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Undertaker » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:51 pm

Doubleuj wrote:Tap water ph8.1

I know you said you calibrated and everything but tapwater at 8.1 sounds too high to me. Unless youre on bore water?
I reckon if you rang the Rocky water board and asked em whats their average pH they would tell you.

Cheers Phil
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Toddles » Wed May 25, 2016 10:19 pm

Hoorah i found a PH thread!

I tested my tpw wash today, finished fermenting SG 990 and PH of 3.0 I thought that was weird but after reading these comments it seems rather normal. Good news :-D
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Kenster » Wed May 25, 2016 10:47 pm

I have never needed to use a backset as all i have done till now is TPW..and this may be my undoing as each batch is from scratch.
I have NEVER checked PH or had any probs with the ferment...always comes out fine...EC1118 works well for me
Just follow the drill.. keep the temp steady and NFW...
I just dont understand all this hassle with PH...over complicating things?
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Toddles » Thu May 26, 2016 8:24 am

From my limited understanding a ph too high or too low can result in a stuck fermentation. Not a worry if your mashes are not getting stuck i suppose!

Also a lower ph like used in a sour mash has the benefit of safeguarding the mash against bacterial infection. I certainly not sure if the ph can effect the final product one distilled, my guess would be that if using anything other than a reflux the flavour would be changed and you are getting moisture from the wash into the final product.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby EziTasting » Thu May 26, 2016 12:24 pm

Undertaker wrote:
Doubleuj wrote:Tap water ph8.1

I know you said you calibrated and everything but tapwater at 8.1 sounds too high to me. Unless youre on bore water?
I reckon if you rang the Rocky water board and asked em whats their average pH they would tell you.

Cheers Phil


Hmmm don't know; my tap waters pH is around 8.5! It's one of the reasons we have issues with our plants... and a massive algal infestation in any nook that holds water. It's a pita!!!
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu May 26, 2016 1:21 pm

EziTasting wrote:
Undertaker wrote:
Doubleuj wrote:Tap water ph8.1

I know you said you calibrated and everything but tapwater at 8.1 sounds too high to me. Unless youre on bore water?
I reckon if you rang the Rocky water board and asked em whats their average pH they would tell you.

Cheers Phil


Hmmm don't know; my tap waters pH is around 8.5! It's one of the reasons we have issues with our plants... and a massive algal infestation in any nook that holds water. It's a pita!!!

maybe thats why we get algae looking shit in our garden beds that dont drain?
The water here in rocky is renowned around here for tasting like shit, im used to it i guess :puke-huge:
but the tpw dont seem to mind, had problems only with gen 3 of a NGW
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Re: PH of washes

Postby hillzabilly » Thu May 26, 2016 6:05 pm

Just tested 50lt gen 3 Macrum reading of 4.8 would like ta lift it to 5.1 or a little higher,have got some potassium hydroxide 400gr/lt used for raiseing the PH of hydroponic solution in our landscapeing supplies,but was not sure wether its suitable for homebrew wash,or go the calcium carbonate. :think: any advice appreciated .cheers hillzabilly ;-)
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Re: PH of washes

Postby Doubleuj » Thu May 26, 2016 6:55 pm

hillzabilly wrote:Just tested 50lt gen 3 Macrum reading of 4.8 would like ta lift it to 5.1 or a little higher,have got some potassium hydroxide 400gr/lt used for raiseing the PH of hydroponic solution in our landscapeing supplies,but was not sure wether its suitable for homebrew wash,or go the calcium carbonate. :think: any advice appreciated .cheers hillzabilly ;-)

Quick search for the msds (material safety data sheet) on potassium hydroxide shows it's really no good for ingestion. http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927230
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Re: PH of washes

Postby hillzabilly » Thu May 26, 2016 7:19 pm

Thanks for that dude,I donot like the idear of going blind either,my eyesight is already a bit dodgy ,too many welding flash's the doc reckoned,a trip ta brew shop it is .cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: PH of washes

Postby JamesK » Tue May 31, 2016 2:07 pm

Hey guys,
I am fresh here but i have a chem degree. The mash comes to such a low pH due to the fermentation process. When the yeast generate CO2 some of it dissolves into the mash lowering the pH The exact mechanics for anyone that cares can be found here.

http://butane.chem.uiuc.edu/pshapley/Ge ... eb-L23.pdf

I wouldn't stress about it cos it's unavoidable, might be able to raise it a little by degassing occasionally however i imagine this would lead to other problem with the fermentation.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby EziTasting » Tue May 31, 2016 6:26 pm

Ok, very interesting. So if we allow the fermenters to gain temperature (as in get warmer) more co2 comes out of solution and thereby changing the equilibrium forcing a change in the carbonic acid levels...!?! So heat would increase the pH!?!
Do I understand that correctly?

If so, how much heat is necessary and at what rate would the pH change?
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Re: PH of washes

Postby rumdidlydum » Tue May 31, 2016 6:43 pm

JamesK wrote:Hey guys,
I am fresh here but i have a chem degree. The mash comes to such a low pH due to the fermentation process. When the yeast generate CO2 some of it dissolves into the mash lowering the pH The exact mechanics for anyone that cares can be found here.

http://butane.chem.uiuc.edu/pshapley/Ge ... eb-L23.pdf

I wouldn't stress about it cos it's unavoidable, might be able to raise it a little by degassing occasionally however i imagine this would lead to other problem with the fermentation.


Call by the welcome area and say gday and introduce yourself ;-)
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Re: PH of washes

Postby warramungas » Tue May 31, 2016 6:59 pm

How about a little trick we used to use for maintaining fish tank ph. However it will probably keep the wash very close to neutral at all times. Get a small nylon bag and fill with clean sea shells maybe half a kg??? Boil the crap put of them in fresh water to sterilize then hang the bag in your wash via clean cotton or stainless wire. Should keep the wash closer to neutral. You could always pull out what's left in the bag after the initial crazy fermentation stage and its settled down a bit.

Problem of course is that it may overshoot that 5.4 ph people seem to aim for at starting. It should fix any wash that has overshot and shells and shell grit should be available at most pet stores.
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Re: PH of washes

Postby JamesK » Tue May 31, 2016 7:23 pm

Yes. Changing the temperature will affect the equilibrium however over the working temperature range of the yeast i don't think it would make a realizable difference. I am just guessing cos i don't have any data, would be an interesting experiment though. Low pH isn't necessarily undesirable during fermentation as it will limit competing growth of other unwanted bacteria. Giving it a good stir before you distill will remove the CO2 from the solution raising the pH.
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