Mash not required

all about mashing and fermenting grains

Re: Mash not required

Postby danwbrews » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:29 pm

peter01010101 wrote:Arrived today, ordered on Ebay on 28 Jan.

Very technical instructions '....Dosage: 0.2 - 0.6% of stuff....' :geek:
Hmmmmm gotta get some stuff. :think:

Peter,
I"m a little confused about the ingredients list.
The food additives are technically the same thing as Yeast and Rhizopus! I'm wondering if this is just a translation thing or if they use natural and man made ingredients just to cover all bases.
Not worried, just confused. I've already ordered some myself.

Is there anyone out there that can help me wrap my head around this? I'm not a chemist but can research the hell out of stuff and that was what I see.
Maybe I was RUM DUMB the next morning when I was looking this stuff up :angry-banghead:

Dan
Last edited by danwbrews on Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby peter01010101 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:42 pm

danwbrews wrote:Peter,
I"m a little confused about the ingredients list.
The food additives are technically the same thing as Yeast and Rhizopus! I'm wondering if this is just a translation thing or if they use natural and man made ingredients just to cover all bases.
Not worried, just confused. I've already ordered some myself.


Dan


G'day Dan
I'm sure there are people here better qualified than me to interpret this. :ugeek: My understanding is the food additives as listed here are the amylase enzymes - these break down the starch into fermentable sugars, similar to the enzymes present in malted barley. To the best of my understanding rhizopus is a type of fungi that offers a nutrition source. Having said that, I wouldn't place too much trust on the translation, particularly given the use of the word 'stuff' in the rest of the panel.

Gotta say, the product really does work on unmashed grains. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers

Peter
Last edited by peter01010101 on Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Teddysad » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:27 pm

update on Angel experiment:

the rice ferments produced 43 litres of fermented racked mash (this was from a total of 10kg rice).

The rice had certainly broken down to almost a meal type consistency not much sign of the original grains.
Put through the big stripper today
Ended up with 9.7 litres at 38%
Had a nice flowery smell from the low wines

The two corn ones also have been stripped. Not as high a result as the rice. In each case about 17 l of mash racked, stripped to about 15% gave about 3.7 l of low wines at 37%
No great difference in volume between cooked and uncooked corn.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:16 pm

Sweet as :dance: :clap: i see rice vodka in my future...
Last edited by bluc on Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby RC Al » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:38 pm

:clap: :happy-partydance: :music-deathmetal: :dance:
Any reason you didn't run the corn wash through your bubbler?

Flavour will be the next item on the list and possibly the suitability of the remaining trub to be steam stripped or put in a thumper - that was 10l you left behind with the racking of the corn ones

What size was the rice wash originally? I seemed to have missed that
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Lesgold » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:20 am

Looks like the rice wash was at about 8.6% and the corn at 8% abv. Well done Teddysad. Was interesting to see the amount of wash you were able to rack off from the rice ferment. Obviously the corn did not break down to the same extent as the rice. As bluc said, rice vodka sounds sweet. A sour mash may also be interesting. So many possibilities starting to stew around in the grey matter. Adding some sugar, water and backset to the corn trub.........Fun times ahead.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:37 am

RC Al wrote::clap: :happy-partydance: :music-deathmetal: :dance:
Any reason you didn't run the corn wash through your bubbler?

Yes. Not enough. I also wanted to strip each separately to ascertain the difference if any between cooked and not.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:46 am

Ramp up time.
I will next do 120 litres of each rice and corn.
Having proved the viability of the process for each, this will give me enough for a couple of runs of each through the 50 bubbler.

Results will be interesting. As far as economics goes, price per kg is not too dissimilar for each or corn, rice and sugar here, with rice the most expensive.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:54 am

The rice was 2 x 26 l ferments each with 5kg of rice
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Re: Mash not required

Postby peter01010101 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:59 am

For anyone interested in seeing how well Angel yeast floculates and clears in a rice wash. These pics are of the last few litres from the fermenter left to clear in smaller containers.

20200311_092348(1).jpg

20200311_092410(1).jpg

The wash was 6Kg of rice topped up to the 25L mark and fermented for 15 days at 32*C. I siphoned about 17L off the grain bed and yeast trub. I poured the rest of the muck and grain into a grain bag and suspended it over a bucket overnight collecting a further 4.5L. I poured this into the three large Maccona coffee jars and left to settle overnight resulting in almost another 4L of wash.
The rest of the wash cleared the same as the jar on the left.

Cheers

Peter
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:54 pm

Seems this is not new viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4817

Wonder what this would do in a 4-1 water to grain mix of nutrigrain :think:
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Re: Mash not required

Postby RC Al » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:02 pm

With nutrigrain at $5-10 a kg I would think you would be better off with corn, oats n wheat? even malted stuff is cheaper than nutri
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:01 pm

At $5-10kg would be cheaper then $12-$14 for malted grain(landed)...not cheaper then feed stock though..
And all in the name of science :obscene-drinkingdrunk:
Or wheetbix or other breakfast cereals..
Last edited by bluc on Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby dans.brew » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:31 pm

If unmalted barley can make a good whiskey with this yeast then ill stick to the stuff that costs me 25 cents/kg :D
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Re: Mash not required

Postby bluc » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:52 pm

My unmalted experiment from last year looks promising dan..
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Re: Mash not required

Postby dans.brew » Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:00 pm

bluc wrote:My unmalted experiment from last year looks promising dan..

That sounds good!
Got myself some of this yeast so once the rum is out the way it will be experiment time. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Beerswimmer » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:56 pm

I made 2 120L ferments of 85% corn & 15% Vienna malt and it's going well so far. This could change my entire hobby...mashing was the the hardest/worst/takes alllll day/can barely heat enough water- part of this hobby.
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Re: Mash not required

Postby dans.brew » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:50 am

Beerswimmer wrote:I made 2 120L ferments of 85% corn & 15% Vienna malt and it's going well so far. This could change my entire hobby...mashing was the the hardest/worst/takes alllll day/can barely heat enough water- part of this hobby.

Would you mind putting up your recipe please... corn is the first thing on my list and ill prob do a 100 ltr wash.
This stuff is really sounding like a goer! :dance:
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Sam. » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:16 am

Anyone got any efficiency figures using this?
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Re: Mash not required

Postby Beerswimmer » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:08 am

My recipe was 50 lbs of cracked corn run through my mill to get it a little smaller, and 15lbs of Vienna malt also through the mill, plus 25 gallons of water and about a half cup of Angel yeast. Took off like a rocket, fermented really well I thought.


Today I strained out 24 gallons of liquid into the kettle and thumper, tossed the corn. Went to my second fermenter and strained out the liquid and put into the empty first fermenter and tossed the spent corn. This way most of the shit work was done and I only had to strip. The liquid was getting super sour and smelly, like vomit so it needed to be run. No boil=lots of bacteria. It's looking like I got bad efficiency so far, at the halfway point of the strip and I only have half the normal volume. Checked the gravity of the liquid and it's 1.010. Damn. Twice as easy, but half as efficient :crying-blue:

Or maybe it was just me?
Last edited by Beerswimmer on Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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