School me on AG

[Sparrow]

Gday guys,

So after a lot of tooing and froing with my mate we've almost made our mind up on a 50 litre guten brewery system.

I've been reading as much as I can about AG but some of the stuff that's really basic seems to be taken for granted as common knowledge when reading recipes.

Firstly, in some recipes people call for getting the grain mash to 60-75 degrees and keeping it there for 60-90 minutes, then sparge and job done. Others seem to add in a boiling step after the initial 60-75 degree cook. When would you use one or the other and how do I know what to choose?

Secondly, I've read some people drain their mash and ferment that where others ferment on the grain, whats the difference in doing the two?

Sparging - can it literally be as simple as pouring hot water over an elevated grain basket at the end or does it need to be more thorough?

How do I check the conversion of starches/enzymes or what have you to make sure that it's working properly.

Any other helpful or useful information I need to consider before diving in?

I really enjoy medium to heavily peated and Sherried whisky, my mate loves bourban and we both don't mind rye whisky's or experimenting with something different so we plan on covering the the spread over time and trying a whole range of AG drinks.

Thanks in advance for the help, you guys are always a great help :handgestures-thumbupleft: .

Sparrow

[Huntsman96]

Hey mate I'll add my limited knowledge and a few points to have a think about. Sparging at its most basic is just pouring more hot liquid over your grain bed to get remaining suagrs out but if done properly through say a false bottome kettle it can also be used to filter your wort. By rerunning your wort through the grain bed in a solid flow the grain bed compacts acting as its own filtration while also getting maximum sugar. Thats my understanding. To check conversion the iodine test is the way to go. Basically add iodine to a small sample. If its blue/black starch is present if its brown there are no starches present. Hope that little bit of info helps :)

[Sam.]

I know you said you have been reading buy have you read John Palmers "How to Brew"?

It is an excellent book and can be had free, might even be in the library here :think:

Helped me immensely when I began all grain beer brewing :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Sorry for the short reply, I will try and do a better post when I have more time, unless someone beats me to it.

[Sparrow]

Thanks for the replies fellas, all helpful.

No I haven't come across that yet Sam but I'll have a look. And by all means if you get time of love any help I can get.

[markus]

Use a good yeast. Don't use lowans if your going to all that effort.
Try an ale yeast or good distillers yeast.

[Sam.]

Firstly, in some recipes people call for getting the grain mash to 60-75 degrees and keeping it there for 60-90 minutes, then sparge and job done. Others seem to add in a boiling step after the initial 60-75 degree cook. When would you use one or the other and how do I know what to choose?

There are many different temperature rests you can do for maximum conversion and also for what type of grain you are using, not going into it here but 60 - 72 is your ballbark figure. The boiling is for beer brewing to sterilise everything and also for your hop additions, for distilling this is not required unless you are worried about infection but it is best to leave the enzymes to continue there job.

Secondly, I've read some people drain their mash and ferment that where others ferment on the grain, whats the difference in doing the two?

What sort of all grain system are you planning on using? Brew in a bag (BIAB), good old mash tun esky with some sort of sparging, grainfather or similar or a full 3 vessel system? This will ultimately decide how you will sparge the grain, for instance with BIAB you don't have to sparge at all, but you do lose some efficiency.

Wether you distill on the grain or not is your choice but the only one I would consider doing it for would be corn just because it can be a prick to seperate,
if you are going to do this be careful of distilling with solids as you can burn it on elements or gas and cause off flavours, also pukes with solids have a potential to block a still.

Sparging - can it literally be as simple as pouring hot water over an elevated grain basket at the end or does it need to be more thorough?

As above

How do I check the conversion of starches/enzymes or what have you to make sure that it's working properly.

You can use a refractometer to make sure you have made some sugar or you can use an iodine test, use the search function on that one.

Any other helpful or useful information I need to consider before diving in?

You need to decide what system you are going to use to make your all grain and go from there.

I hope that hasn't confused the shit of ya :laughing-rolling:

[Sparrow]

Thanks Sam, all very helpful info mate.
At this stage I'm planning on going with either a 50l guten or two 30l ones so I guess it's a grain father type system.
Can't be effed having to run everything twice through a single 30l to get enough ferment for one run in the 50l boiler.

Thanks Markus - any suggestions on which to use? Most of the distillers years I'm finding are still spirits and only seem to pride themselves on how much alcohol they can produce.

[Nino]

Thanks Markus - any suggestions on which to use? Most of the distillers years I'm finding are still spirits and only seem to pride themselves on how much alcohol they can produce.[/quote]

Have a look on ebay distillers yeast is sometimes sold on there, you may have to search through all the turbo yeast to find it though. :)

[bluc]

Thanks Markus - any suggestions on which to use? Most of the distillers years I'm finding are still spirits and only seem to pride themselves on how much alcohol they can produce.

Have a look on ebay distillers yeast is sometimes sold on there, you may have to search through all the turbo yeast to find it though. :)[/quote]
Who is "distiller yeast" made by? is that the "daddy yeast" mentioned elsewhere on the net?

[coffe addict]

Saf spirit malt gives a very good result, $75 for 500gm. I ended up with about 40L aging from one pack.

If your going to do all barley ie scotch style 63c to 64c is about ideal any higher than that and your unfermentable sugars climb.

I've never bothered with the iodine or other tests and never had a problem. Just taste a bit you'll soon know if you've made sugar or not.
The grind is pretty critical too fine and you'll have issues with stuck sparging and too coarse and you have issues with low yield. I'm currently grinding @1.1mm up from 0.9mm with less stuck sparges

As Sam said fermentation on the grain is usually done by those with a bourbon style corn mash but seems to me to be way more trouble than its worth but hey I don't like bourbon....

My mashes are done in a 44 and I just run the hot tap straight in as I'm drawing out of the bottom tap into my fermenter. Your system may work differently but essentially your adding water at the top to keep the liquid level the same until what comes out the bottom is low enough in specific gravity to not bother fermenting.

[Sparrow]

Thanks coffee,

I think ive seen that one online, reckon I might go in that direction.

So the grind size is determined by a setting on a mill or does it need to be measured by eye? I'm assuming a corona mill or knock off is fine?

Ok that makes sense, maybe I could get away with a smaller setup then if the sparging with fresh water is going to knock up the volume. No idea what start sg readings to aim for with AG barley but I spose that's questions and research for another place.

Appreciate the help mate

[markus]

Fermentis is a good go to yeast. Either the safspirit malt whisky yeast or the safale US 05
Wyeast also have a few strains,which I haven't used yet. Is worth a look at too.

[markus]

I prefer the us 05 over the safspirit malt. I used the malt yeast for years but the us05 in my opinion produces more fruity notes. If that's what you like :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[orcy]

If your having trouble with stuck sparges, try adding rice hulls. My mate swears by them.

[Lowie]

Do yourself a favour and read Brendans AG post. Best I've read anywhere...
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5787#p97014

[Lowie]

If your having trouble with stuck sparges, try adding rice hulls. My mate swears by them.

:text-+1:

[EziTasting]

It's funny you should quote How to Brew by John Palmer!!

I've been pouring over this book for the past 2 months, while flicking PMs to people I know that are doing AGs repeatedly... :D thank you for your patience, encouragement and guidance guys!

I can not wait to be able to contribute more than I have ... feel like I've gone right back to the beginning... and it's Exciting!!

[coffe addict]

I haven't used a corona so can't comment on the settings but with the mm2 mill I have I used feeler gauges to set the gap.

I'd suggest getting the largest set up you can. In my set up I end up with 200 or more litres. It's alot of work getting the stuff set up and temps right plus it can sit for quite a while without issues. I run a mash on one weekend and then run it through the still over several evenings.
My first mash was us05 alot of people swear by it but it was one mash mixed with six or so of safspirit malt in my barrel so can't really comment except that the white dog was very yummy lol.

[bluc]

Hmmm us05 is fruitty anyone know how it handles molasses sounds like it may make a nice rum :think:

[Lowie]

It's funny you should quote How to Brew by John Palmer!!

I've been pouring over this book for the past 2 months, while flicking PMs to people I know that are doing AGs repeatedly... :D thank you for your patience, encouragement and guidance guys!

I can not wait to be able to contribute more than I have ... feel like I've gone right back to the beginning... and it's Exciting!!

John Palmer is the guru IMHO. I learnt how to brew from his book and my beer is bloody good (others opinions not mine...)