Question About Generations

[Linny]

Ive tried reading UJSM here .... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=725

No matter how many times i read it , i just dont get it.... Im about to go get molases and cracked corn for a rum and bourbon style drink. so i want to get this right.

Am i being dumb and assuming the 20% you use in backset is the left over from the strip run and pour that back into the fermenter ??? (once cooled down)

Also do you keep the first generations ? or do you keep them as fients until say 3rd or 4th generation

[emptyglass]

The leftover is called backset.
You add it to your fermenter and the rest is water.
You can also use the heat in it to disolve your sugar, then cool, then add.
Varying the ammout will give you different flavor/character.
It also helps ph levels.

Bourbo-rum is not bad, but I prefer to make them seperate. If you use white or raw sugar, or lots/not lots of molasses, will make it taste more like rummy bourbon or bourbon-ish rum.
Some would say its all wrong, but its one of the good things about making your own stuff, you can experiment.

[bt1]

howdy,

I'm not a rum head but whiskies I know well.

Your right it's the left over wash from boiler, stripped of alcohol, cooled or used to mdisolve sugar as a cost saver on heating that's added back to a newly prepared fermenter, in both cases rum and some whiskies.

2 pts different names for same, rum to whiskies. Rum=dunder, it well smells and is aptly named imho. whiskies=backset.

No all whiskies require backset usually used to achieve a sour mash process, take an Irish or a Scotch for instance= no backset generally.

This is personal view but backsetting a pure sugar head wash is a waste... it adds no flavour but yeh it does sour the mash. To backset imho should have a grain content in all the washes to achieve the flavour break.
Backset acidifies the wash, so you need to correct pH but not directly into the backset...i.e fix once wash is near complete pre yeast. The killer for backsetting is acid..pH needs to be adjusted, done right gen 25 is ok and bloody tasty I might add.

For rums I'm still learing my self but...same applies most seem not to worry about acid levels until it effects the start up of yeast... like it don't start. Personally I reckon there's nothing wrong with tweaking the wash pH to allow for dunder as it's called in this case..some will disagree and say it's not needed perhaps that's true.

mac said he runs rum from gen 1 -5. That seems right (personal gen 5 currently) but dam is it a messy biatch. I'm sticking to this as a guide.

For early gens not sure for rum but it seems if pot stilled all gens are run together as a spirit run. I'm single running rum so instead will blend the gens to adjust for the varying taste strengths.

For whiskies, if pot stilling same applies all run together so all early gens get treated as one. For a refluxer again blending is the go imho.
Don't be surprised if an early whisky gen is your preferred taste either. late gens are bloody strongly flavoured... but great blenders and age quick .

On the amount you add 20% is about the avg, I like a little less at around 10 - 15% so I can spread gens out a little more.

Once underway you'll realise your backset/dunder value cos of the efforts and time taken to develop...if your having a break you need to consider freezing it or adding plain spirit to preserve it to keep for later use...it's sacred...

can't speek for rums but for sour mashing whiskies at some pt gen 10 / gen 15..your call you need to stop and add only 5% as the flavour goes west.. if you want to avoid this experiment and effort stop before gen 10 would be suggested.

Finally a pt to make..sour mashing is a flavour thing it doesn't mean killing of yeast by acidifying it to death. as the god John Palmer hinted...sour mashing past yeast health is more about marketing rather that true value

questions ask, opinions their yours..you have mine.
bt1

[Linny]

thanks ,, :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[MacStill]

Nicely put bt1, excellent post :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Linny]

well finally finished running a UJSM first gen ,,, i pulled 1L of corn out and replaced it with new corn. put 20L water back in and 4kg raw sugar ..... left the backset to cool over night before adding it,,,, i expected this to kick start again ,,,, not happening ...

do i still count this as Gen 1 if i have to add more yeast ,,, or start at zero again

the most annoying thing is that i ran out of yeast ,,, was expecting this to kick off again ,,, now it has to sit there for a day before i can fix it :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[Lowndsey]

Give it a while it can take a few hours sometimes. My last batch took nearly 2 days before it really started to take off. If you have to add more yeast no real big deal as the backset is the most important thing IMO allowing it to sour.

[Linny]

i might move it in the morning from the shed to the laundry ,,, theyre expecting 43*C tomorrow ,,, will be worse in the shed

[Cane Toad]

She'll be right mate,just let it do its thing :handgestures-thumbupleft: If it ain't kicked off in a couple of days,throw a bit of yeast at it :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:
My UJ is up to high teens low 20's,I forget :handgestures-thumbdown: Sounds like the perfect woman IMO :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: and I've had to help kick start it on a few occasions :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[bt1]

I've generally found that UJSM's that don't take is a pH thing...yeh I know pH junky but its a fact.

measure pH or just pop some bi carb in ... especially as you get deeper in gens.
bt1

[emptyglass]

Give it time mate, your yeast has been sleeping since the bubbles stopped. They take a bit to get out of bed.

I lost count after gen 22, sometimes it would take a few days to fire up, particularly if I had let it settle for a long time. I only added extra yeast once, and in hindsight I just had to wait.

First gen, its still getting itself sorted out.
I'm assuming you let the backset cool enough before you added it.

[Linny]

yeah your right , i let it sit over night , and it started again ,,, then i added the backset... now its bubbling away again

[emptyglass]

If it worked, then you nailed it.

If you want, you can use the heat in the backset to melt your sugar, then sit tight for an hour or two till it cools then add it back. Saves you melting the sugar seperatly. The next gen wont start till it has sugar, so if you rack it off and add your water to the fermenter, this will keep the yeast alive while the wash clears. Then add the cooled backset with sugar at any time in the near future, and it'll get up and going.

The yeast bed with water and the cooled backset with sugar will both go mouldy (spider webs) if left seperate for too long. A finnished ferment, with the alc still in there will keep for months.

[Linny]

cheers , i ran out of gas ... so i had to run 25L through my little 5L. I wasnt worried since this was a first gen i was going to reflux it to a neutral. i had to keep 2 separate runs to make the required backset lol