Bourbon mash

[emptyglass]

Whats your favorite grain bill for an all-grain bourbon?

Corn?
Rye?
Barley?
Something else?

How much of each works for you? What does your supplier charge for malted/unmalted grains?

Do you sparge you mash?

Any conversion problems/issues? What temps and rests work?

Any other hints or tips?

[Brendan]

Sorry I can't contribute to this yet EG, soon though.

I am planning a Maker's Mark clone which will consist of a grain bill with: 70% Corn/14% Wheat/16% Barley

The local supplier sells 25kg of malted barley for about $50...raw wheat is about the same price. The local feed store also sells cracked corn very cheaply, but I'm unaware of the cost at the moment...

The main thing I'll be looking at is dealing with the corn...I'll have the mash tun with false bottom set up for all grain malt washes...but am unsure whether to mill the corn into a flour or not. This seems the usual procedure, making a thick porridge which is then thinned out a lot by the addition of the barley. I'm wondering how clear this will go after fermentation...my concern being running this wash with an internal element. Hopefully good clearing, straining and a slow heat up should get the job done :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Hill]

Same i'm yet to experiment but very close now.

I wouldn't imagine a sparge would work cause you would dilute down your wash too much.

[Linny]

20kg cracked corn in a bag was $17.45

[MR-E]

20kg cracked corn in a bag was $17.45

+1, I by my malted barley from my H.B.S & have them crack it, I pay about $4 per kg.
btw, I'm using NcHooches recipe :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[emptyglass]

I'm feeling close to ready to have a go at some all grain. I figure it might take me a bit until I get the hang of it, I expect some spectacular failures along the way.
But I don't want to get into malting at this stage.

I can get craked corn about right, about $30 a bushel. Whole corn is a bit cheaper, not by much, but a bit. But I can't find malted corn, something I'd like to play with, I think.
Local HB shop has malted barley and many other grains but no malted rye, they are a bit exy though.

Might have to go to the big smoke to get the right gear, even though there is a malting factory in this town.

I have a rye recipie I'd like to try, but it calls for "red" wheat. I think it might be a seasonal variant they use in the northern hemisphere. Anyone know what it is called here, if there is indeed such a thing here?

[kelbygreen]

$4 a kg?? you getting weyermann grain?

Aus ale and pilsner malt $2.75 kg cracked
Aus wheat $3.39lk
Raw barely $2.64kg
raw wheat $2.64kg

Thats from my LHBS

[bt1]

ok, enough on grains allready..unless your wanting more... :D

How bout a AG guru post the method...step by step simple

I for one would love to migrate from the halfway house of BIB and sugar to a full AG.

BIB btw is dam fine no complaints


bt1

[kelbygreen]

I do AG but for beer it would be the same.

Its hard to post step by step as all systems are different. I use 3v with a pump and that would be different to a cheap method like BIAB or a similar single vessel unit. The process is kinda the same but calculations for every rig will need to be done by the brewer even same equipment different grain bill will be different

[emptyglass]

I know a little bit about cobbling a still together, but I know SFA about AG mashing. At this point, i'm much more interested in bourbon, and have never made drinking beer at home.

I've read about brew in a bag methods for beer, but how do they relate to bourbon? Is this a beer makers shortcut that some distillers use?

Not sure if I want to go down the road of distilling on the grain, my equipment is not really set up for that.

So does the brew in a bag let you remove the grain from the cooker easier?

See, I'm really admitting my ignorance now...We all got to come out of the closet sometime.

Another one for the "glossary of terms"; AGV; all grain virgin.

[bt1]

EG...I feel your pain ... of taking the next step.. I'm a one legged BIB guy looking for a guru.. in AG to guide my lost sole to the next step...

Please post a Full AG... dam sure we'll work it out for our setups...

I'm happy to offer 500 well loved and developed, carefully nurtured karma points as gift in return ...with gracious good wishes ... may your cycles of clarification be endless ...

geez this tullimore dew makes me feel... artistic ....or is that miss spelled?

bt1

[kelbygreen]

EG

Ok your looking at mashing the grains. This is mashing the grains in a mashtun or can use a bag to hold the grain.

They get mashed at a certain temp (usually between 62-76 deg) this converts the enzimes to sugars so you can ferment them, the lower the temp the more fermentable sugars (the less flavor transfered) the higher the temp the less fermentable sugars ( the more flavor transfered).

Cheapest way is BIAB (brew in a bag) you mash in a pot or esky or anything. You buy voile from a certain shop and use that to hold the grain. Hold mash temp for a hour hoist bag.

Easy but you get starches and other stuff in there that may or may not be wanted in distilling. In beer its a big dispute but I like clear wort clean beer approach and got 3V path.

3V is 3 vessel.

You have a HLT (hot liqueur tun) this heat water only. So this will heat water for your dough in and each step it only heats water thats it.

You have your mash tun. This is where you mash and add your water from HLT. You will have a manifold in the bottom

Then your boiler which boils the wort now. I see in distilling people dont boil there mash but I have mashed a batch thought I will just cube in and boil it in a few days. Everything sanitised and 3 days later the cube was about to blow it was so swallen. I opened the cube and the smell was rank :puke-huge: tipped the lot down the drain and always boiled on the same day I mashed

[emptyglass]

Heres Nchooch's carolina bourbon. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=17750
This one was recomended to me a while back, along with big R's no boil ag, that I can't find atm.

I'd like to also try a rye bourbon, but have heard rye is a bit hard to convert.

Nc's recipie calls for straining after mashing, thats it. I guess theres a difference as to how much you can get away with in distilling world that you can't in beer world?

[Brendan]

This is solely my opinion...but if someone is going to the hassle of all grain, why go for no cook recipe's?

It's a non-authentic method using authentic ingredients...in terms of bourbon it's only to the extent of being able to heat up some water to 60-70 deg C, mixing the grain/corn...then holding that temp for 30-60 mins (esky/keg with insulation). Then you can start to look at sparging and BIAB if you wish...

That being said...theory tells us that the enzyme conversion taking place at 60-70 deg C over that 30-60 mins will also convert in several days at room temp (hence no cook methods on the grain). And we could argue that the big boys don't do that as time = money...but personally I'd rather mimick the big boys as it's their product I'm basing off of and trying to better. I don't know what different flavours may be created :?

[MR-E]

Don't confuse no cook, with the no boil method.
Big R cooks the corn by bringing the the corn up to temp in three stages.
Heat up to 54.c while stirring & then kill the heat & let it rest for 30 mins
heat up to 74.c....................................................................
heat up to 93.c....................................................................
I then chuck it in the mash tun (esky) & mix in the barley when it gets to 65.5 c & I let it convert overnight.

[emptyglass]

Mr E, have you got a link to big r's recipie?

[Brendan]

Give this a hit EG The No Boil Corn Mashing Method :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[emptyglass]

Thats the one Brendan, thanks.
I'll have a read up on it.

[MtnMoonshiner]

I just posted a recipe and process in the Tried&Proven section. The only thing I would do differently, is that if you're going to scale down the amount significantly, I would suggest boiling the corn.

I don't know what prices you'll be looking at in your location, but I can't imagine they'd be too expensive. You also might save some money, and have more fun if you bought unmalted whole grain or corn, and malted it yourself.

Of note, United States export law, and Kentucky State law state that the only whiskey to be labled "bourbon" shall only be produced in the state of Kentucky, and shall be made of no less than 50% corn. The export and labeling portion is laughable, especially since most of us obviously don't care much about laws concerning the production of alcohol. However, the corn is an important part, if you want to get flavor close to Jim Beam, or something similar. Not using enough corn, or no corn at all will give it more of a flavor akin to Irish, or Scotch whiskey.

The aging is also an important step, and one which unfortunately requires patients. Obviously it can be drank right from the still, but if you're going for a true bourbon flavor, you should age it in a charred oak cask, or in a bottle/jar with charred oak chips. I'm currently aging about 3L right now, and will be for about a year. The last batch I aged was very good, and similar to any store bought brand.

[baldoss]

Not using enough corn, or no corn at all will give it more of a flavor akin to Irish, or Scotch whiskey.

I love Irish whiskey and my medium term goal at the moment is to eventually find or work out a recipe for Irish whiskey that gets me something in the vein of Tullamore or Writer's Tears. I know bt was working on a recipe for Irish - have you had any attempts or successes at making Irish-style whiskey MM? I speak for myself but I reckon there'd be a lot of people on here who would love to give a good Irish a whirl. :handgestures-thumbupleft: