The newbies guide to mashing.

[Valoren]

Since there's nothing in the newbies section and all I've done so far is sugar washes of one sort or another can someone please explain the mashing process, I've managed to find a local Indian shop that sells two kilo's of corn meal for a dollar twenty and I figured since it's already ground that it would be perfect for a bourbon mash, I've heard there's no cook versions and versions you boil, let cool and then chuck malt of some kind in to start diastase enzyme to convert the starch to simpler sugars.

Could someone explain the process for a bourbon mash in a way which is perfect for us newbs that have only brewed beer from concentrate and only distilled sugar washes in the fine art of more traditional mashing?

[emptyglass]

I know bourbon has to contain 51% corn and be distilled in Kentucky to be called bourbon, other than that, I've got my popcorn and waiting.
I'm currently trying to loose my all grain virginity on some Mtn moonshiners appalachian whiskey, and just like when I was young, there was a horrible mess sometime arround first base.
I guess you would call it a bourbon mash?

I'd like to see a simple explanation of rest periods for conversion of the main grains involved...

[Valoren]

Just looking for a guide to do a decent bourbon or maybe a rye whiskey, As far as I know you can boil the fuck out of it let it cool then toss the malted barley in to get the enzymes to work but I don't know anything beyond that.

I know bourbon has to contain 51% corn and be distilled in Kentucky to be called bourbon, other than that, I've got my popcorn and waiting.
I'm currently trying to loose my all grain virginity on some Mtn moonshiners appalachian whiskey, and just like when I was young, there was a horrible mess sometime arround first base.
I guess you would call it a bourbon mash?

I'd like to see a simple explanation of rest periods for conversion of the main grains involved...

[emptyglass]

Yeah, ok, going to put my foot in my mouth here.

I think there is a rest period between 65ish degrees for alpha a and another around 68 for alfa B?? for about an hour each? This is for the enzymes to do their work?
Each one does some work, and as you climb in temp, it also deactivates the previous enzyme, as in if you boil it straight up, the enzymes are destroyed and are of no use??

I'm slowly getting a handle on it, but I've read enough to be dangerous.

The local beer barons seem to have a good grasp on the topic...
wheres the fermen-tator when you need him??

Edit; I think bourbon is 12% malted barley, varying % of rye, the balance corn. Then there is straight corn whiskey and rye whiskey. Tennisee bourbon is maple charcoal filtered (must have been dirty to need to filter it :laughing-rolling: )

[blond.chap]

Hi mate,

My best recommendation for learning about all grain mashing is to read "how to brew", it's a free online book by john palmer. Then just substitute some of the barley for corn.

Eg you're almost right, the two amylases each have a range where they are effective. Beta amylase works a best at around 62degC, alpha amylase works at 68degC.

Beta amylase cuts large carbohydrates into very simple fermentable sugar,where alpha cuts the carbohydrates randomly into large and small sugars. The small ones are what will ferment and pass through the still. So I figure you're best mashing at 62degC for at least an hour (or until adding iodine to a small amount of liquid doesn't turn black).

You need to add either malted barley or liquid amylase to your corn, as corn has no (or very little amylase). Sorry I don't know the exact proportions.

So the process is:
1. Crush all your grains
2. Add water at roughly 75degC so that the mixture ends up around 62degC (don't let it get above 65degC.
3. Keep the mixture at that temperature for 1-2 hours, stirring every 15-30 minutes
4. Top up with a little boiling water if its getting cold (below,58degC)
5. Top up to your desired final volume with cold water, when it's around 30degC, pitch yeast.

Sorry I can't tell you anything about no cook methods, never looked into them.

Hope this helps

[wedwards]

Yeah I second reading the free online book by John Palmer - taught me most of what I know about mashing for beer and I still refer to it from time to time.

Only other thing I will say is that a mash for beer usually goes to a higher temp than a mash for a whiskey that uses the same grains - I can't remember why off hand, but it does, and you get a much better product doing the mash at a slightly lower temp, plus I think it helps to stop puking when you run it (which was how I discovered this in the first place). From memory you don't go over 67 degrees C for whiskey and you can go to 69 degrees C for certain styles of beer.

[wedwards]

Blond.chap : good description of the process for distilling purposes :)

[Hill]

There's a book called "from harvest to moonshine" which I find really good, it goes through mashing and gives you all types of recipes.

[JayD]

There's a book called "from harvest to moonshine" which I find really good, it goes through mashing and gives you all types of recipes.

here is a link to...."from harvest to moonshine"

[1 2many]

:text-+1: how to brew by john Palmer i bought the book version years ago when i was doing all grain mashes and it is a good read .

[Valoren]

There's a book called "from harvest to moonshine" which I find really good, it goes through mashing and gives you all types of recipes.

here is a link to...."from harvest to moonshine"

I've had a copy of from harvest to moonshine on my bed next to me for the past two weeks and didnt think to take a fuckin look!

[Kravin]

OK quick and VERY rough crash course:

Mashing is the process of converting malted grain (starches) into sugars via the use of moisture and temperature using enzymes.

So in nature; a grain falls to the ground and absorbs moisture from the soil, then the sun heats it up which activates enzymes within the grain, which in turn reacts with the starches and converts them into sugars. The grain then uses that sugar as a nutritional source to sprout, establish itself in the soil and grow into a plant. which then starts the cycle again.

Maltsters collect grain and add moisture and heat to it so the enzymes are activated. then they suspend the process by kilning it at about the time the grain is ready to sprout. This is then called malted barley\wheat\rye etc.

What we are doing when we mash, is crushing the grain to release the starch, mixing it all together with warm water into a porridge and then activating the enzymes to 'eat' the starches, converting them into sugars for our yeast to 'eat' and then turn into alcohol.

so, things you'll need:
something to crush your malted grain or any other adjuncts you intend to brew with.
an insulated vessel that will maintain a constant even temperature for over an hour, or a way of maintaining a constant even temperature for that time.
A way to separate the fluid (wort) from the grain once the mashing process is finished (fine mesh bag, pillow case, false bottom, bucket with finely drilled out holes or slots, some sort of sieve).

First, crush your grains.
Most home brew shops that supply grain can also mill it for you too. if you have your own mill, make sure the crush is enough to separate the endosperm (white bits) from the inside while still keeping the grain hull as intact as possible.
this will allow the hulls to act as a filter as well as allow to the water to flow a lot better when rinsing (sparging) the grain. As some insurance, ask the home brew store to throw in an appropriate amount of rice hulls into the grain bill. this will aid in sparging without adding anything else to flavour. this would be especially true if you're using rye or oats, or anything that tends to go gluggy when mixing in warm water.

Batch size.
How much wash are you going to make?
for an all grain mash, the grain will absorb roughly 1L per 1Kg of grain.
so if we were making 40L of wash with 12Kg, we will need roughly 52L of water.

The Mash
for our 40L batch, lets throw say, about 35L of water at around about 70C.
then add your grain and mix well to avoid any clumps (doughballs).
the consistency of the mash should be like a chunky soup or a loose porridge so add some water if it's looking a bit dry.
for the sake of this crash course, we're aiming at holding the mash at 62C, so have some boiling water and some cool water on hand to adjust the mash temp accordingly.
now you need to hold it there for about an hour. depending on how your insulating your mash tun (insulated vessel) you might need to keep adding some boiling water and mixing to maintain that temp.
After the hour, throw some boiling water in there to bring the temp up to about 68C and let the grain bed settle for 5 minutes.
then drain\sieve\strain the wort into another vessel

Sparge
the rest of the water we have laying about, have that ready at about 75C and dump it into the grain, mixing well. let the grain bed settle again for 5 minutes and drain\sieve\strain into the vessel the first runnings are in.
you should be pretty close to your 40L batch size.

Check your gravity. if your low, most home brew shops sell LDME (light dry malt extract) or LME (liquid malt extract). this is basically what you have drained into the vessel, only it's been dried and powdered or condensed into a sugary syrup. you can use this, or sugar or dextrose or something fermentable to raise your gravity or dilute with water to lower it.

Ferment
Now this is where it's a little bit grey for me.
it looks like most distillers just ferment this out 'as is' with good results.
optionally you can boil it for say 15min or up to an hour for protein coagulation and leave that behind in the kettle when you transfer it to cool.
if you opt to boil it, you'll need to allow for evaporation and for the stuff (trub) in the bottom of your kettle and adjust accordingly to your batch size.
depending on how vigorous your boil is, you can allow for up to 10L over the hour or as little as a hundred ml over 15min.

Adjuncts
if you wanted to use corn, rice or anything without the Amalayse enzymes required for starch conversion in the mash, I would suggest about 2Kg of base malt (eg: pale malt) per 10Kg of corn\rice etc.
that should give you enough enzymatic action\diastatic power to still allow for starch conversion.

So that's a starting point for you, that will give you some moderate results.
Hope that helps.

Please correct\adjust or add anything to the above if need be.
it's an up the guts noob guide to mashing, not supposed to be completely accurate...

Kravin

[blond.chap]

That's awesome mate, thanks a lot for taking the time.

[baldoss]

Great thread guys, thanks for the info and the links.

[Bodhammer]

This is a good read: http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/04/di ... your-beer/

You can use the formula to determine how much malt you need to add to convert the starches in the mash. See this: http://homedistiller.org/grain/wash-grain/yield

HTH,
Bod

[1 2many]

That was a good refresher read for me good job . :handgestures-thumbupleft: