Experiments with Amylase.

[DaveZ]

This is going to be an experiment in more ways than one as I've never done a grain mash of any kind. But I've bottle of liquid Amylase from an eBay seller and am going to try to work out how well it works.

Here is his instructions for grain:

For Corn / Grains / Rice: Add your 5KG cracked or floured Grain and 25L mixture of boiled and cooled water to end up with total mixture of around 50-60~c (Ratio of 1kg Grain to 3-4.5L Water) adjust PH to 4.5 with Approx 3 – 5 heaped TSP of citrus acid, mix, then mix in the half the Amylase (5-10ML). Cover and mix well every 10-20 Min.

After an hour, bring mixture slowly to a boil and let cool, either strain off your grains or do an on grain ferment, and add the other half of the required Amylase.

I'm thinking I'll just use corn in a 25L ferment and see what sort of yield I get. Does anyone see any problems with the process listed above? I thought boiling after adding the enzymes will stop them from continuing to work? Although you do add some more once it's cooled again so maybe it's no big issue.

Cheers,
Dave.

[blond.chap]

Sounds ok, though a bit vague, a few comments on improving the method:
- Try to get the mix to about 62degC, and keep it above 58 by adding little bits of boiling water through the run
- See if you can get an insulated container to do it in, a small esky or cylindrical cooler. This will keep the temperature more stable.

The boil will be to sterilise the mix (and possibly to help soften the grains), personally I wouldn't bother if you're running it through a still, just keep it at the temperature for a bit longer if the grains don't seem soft enough.

If you don't boil, you shouldn't need 2nd addition of amylase. Just cool to about 30degC and pitch yeast.

[Hill]

There is heaps of info out there that surpport boiling the corn at some point whether it be to rest lower then boil then cool and rest again or to boil then bring down for rest, someone else might pipe in here and give us some technical info but my guess would be that the corn mixture is very thick and floury so I'm thinking the boil helps unsolidify the mixture and allows more conversion. With your grains anything over 75deg will stop conversion, in saying that a certain amount of fermentables in a mash for distilling may work ok as long as you had enough fermentables from another source.

[blond.chap]

There is heaps of info out there that surpport boiling the corn at some point whether it be to rest lower then boil then cool and rest again or to boil then bring down for rest, someone else might pipe in here and give us some technical info but my guess would be that the corn mixture is very thick and floury so I'm thinking the boil helps unsolidify the mixture and allows more conversion. With your grains anything over 75deg will stop conversion, in saying that a certain amount of fermentables in a mash for distilling may work ok as long as you had enough fermentables from another source.

Listen to him, I just know beer...

[unsub]

I'm keen to see how this turns out because I have a fair bit of cracked corn lying around I want to use up.

[DaveZ]

Thanks guys. I wasn't planning on using any other fermentables, just the cracked corn to see if the Amylase works like it's meant to. So will it matter if I boil the corn first, then cool to ~62C, add the Amylase and hold temp for an hour? As opposed to the way suggested in the ad.

[Hill]

I'm certainly no expert Blond you where right on track for grains. If you have a refractometer it would help in letting you know where you are with your mash, you can get the same info with a hydrometer and a thermometer but there are some calculations you will need to do. I haven't done 100% corn yet but i'm not looking forward to it, it is thick as all hell from what i hear.

There are a few recipes in from harvest to moonshine that boil the corn first so i'm guessing that would be ok.

If you like I can type out a recipe tonight from home.

[blond.chap]

Thanks guys. I wasn't planning on using any other fermentables, just the cracked corn to see if the Amylase works like it's meant to. So will it matter if I boil the corn first, then cool to ~62C, add the Amylase and hold temp for an hour? As opposed to the way suggested in the ad.

You can probably play it by ear, it may be the case (speculating here) that the initial mixture will be too thick and might burn, the amylase would then thin it out.

If the amylase is any good then the corn alone should give you some sugar. Good experiment by the way, I'll grab a bottle as well if this pans out.

[DaveZ]

That could be why the amylase is added in two parts maybe? An initial conversion of starch to sugar to thin the mix, boil to release the rest of the starches then finish the conversion?

I'll grab a decent sized cooler later today and see if I can't get this on the go tonight, I'm keen to see how well it works.

[Hill]

Sounds good, let us know how you go.

[Brendan]

Thanks guys. I wasn't planning on using any other fermentables, just the cracked corn to see if the Amylase works like it's meant to. So will it matter if I boil the corn first, then cool to ~62C, add the Amylase and hold temp for an hour? As opposed to the way suggested in the ad.

You can probably play it by ear, it may be the case (speculating here) that the initial mixture will be too thick and might burn, the amylase would then thin it out.

If the amylase is any good then the corn alone should give you some sugar. Good experiment by the way, I'll grab a bottle as well if this pans out.

I think your speculation is on the mark Blondy...

When a typical bourbon mash is being done, the corn is cooked at a certain temp (not sure about the boiling as such), and turns to a thick porridge like substance...malted barley is then added at the right temp, which almost instantly thins out the mix to a less viscous watery mix...but un-malted grain does not have the same effect, so it must have to do with the enzymes from the malted barley... :think:

[Lupus]

Out of curiosity, apart from thus eBay store, is there any other sites to pick up amylase? I notice sone discussion of its use on HD, and the US brew stores seem to have a powdered form. Was wondering if a local source could be found

[crow]

yep they do and no it ain't cheap ;-)

[wynnum1]

compounding pharmacy may be worth investigating.

[Lupus]

Wynnum
Yeah but problem is explaining to pharmacy why I need it. And in volume.

Tried to get some stuff made up at compounding pharmacy for work and the issues we had.

Our of curiosity, anyone see issues getting stuff in from o/s? Not a restricted product is it?

[wynnum1]

They sell stuff at the chemist Digestive Enzymes but is like the bread improver has a lot of crap that is not needed ,say its for horses or cattle .

[DaveZ]

Currently up to 72C, 5kg cracked corn, 15L of water. It's still fairly easy to stir so I'll keep taking the temp up until it gets unmanageable.

Anybody know the sugar/starch content of a weevil? :scared-eek:

[blond.chap]

Anybody know the sugar/starch content of a weevil? :scared-eek:

Depends on how fat it was, protein content is always high though, good yeast food when cooked.

[DaveZ]

Up around 83C, really starting to thicken up now. I'm going fairly easy with the heat though being my first time, steady steady.

[DaveZ]

Heat off at about 84C. Will let it cool and add half the amylase at 62C.

How do I tell if all the starch has been released? I'll reheat again after conversion to be sure, then add the rest of the amylase once back down to 62C. According to his directions 10mls total is all I will need for 5Kgs of corn, if it works then this 250ml bottle will last me a while.