Chinese yeast balls

[blond.chap]

I've been talking a bit about these things in the Tongba thread. But my experiments are starting to move away from that recipe so I figured I'd start something new. Invisigoth has also been playing around with this kind of thing (but seems to be more interested in sake).

As a summary, these things contain yeast and (what I assume to be) koji mould. The koji is the interesting part, as it converts starches to fermentable sugars at ambient temperature (which you would normally use amylases for at 62degC).

I've so far tried small batches of millet and feed grade crushed maize, both are fermenting away nicely. So I can't see any reason why wheat and barley wouldn't also work. The next experiment will be to do 40L of corn, barley and wheat whisky and see how that turns out. Coincidentally I have a conventionally fermented bourbon wash going at the moment, so I'll compare the 2.

Yeast balls (about $4 for 6 at your local Asian food store):

WP_000229.jpg

[Cane Toad]

So the mould converts the starches :think: :think: I wonder if you kept the generations going,would you get a greater amount of mould,this cutting down on fermenting times? :think: :think:
All this talk about AG and conversion and moulds is really starting to hurt/fuck with my head x_x x_x x_x :laughing-rolling:

[blond.chap]

So the mould converts the starches :think: :think: I wonder if you kept the generations going,would you get a greater amount of mould,this cutting down on fermenting times? :think: :think:
All this talk about AG and conversion and moulds is really starting to hurt/fuck with my head x_x x_x x_x :laughing-rolling:

That could well work, grab a handful of the previous fermentation and throw it in to the next one. Would save on yeast costs too (though $4 per packet isn't bad).

It's simple, goes like this: starch (with mould) - >sugar (with yeast) -> booze.

[Cane Toad]

The last part I like :handgestures-thumbupleft: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
Just found this,it appears that these rice grains only contain the mould/spores,so I spose this would allow you to use whatever yeast you wanted :think:


Miyako Kouji Mold 500g
$16.50
Dried koji mold. Soak in water before use.


Qty
NET : 500g
How to Store :
Maker : Isesou
Shipping Weight : 510 g
Shipping Volume : 1260 cm3
Ingredients : Rice, Aspergillus oryzae

[Lupus]

From my reading, the mould within the Chinese yeast balls are slightly different to the koji mould used in brewing sake. Net result however is still the same, with the moulds breaking starches down to sugars.

I too am hoping to try this out. Only concern is the yeast. I have a friend using the yeast balls to make Chinese rice wine. Their main complaint was that the product lacked the alcohol kick and was too sweet. I have seen other Chinese rice wine recipes that suggest after starch breakdown, to supplement with white wine to continue the fermentation process for a more alcoholic product. As such, the yeast in the balls may not have enough guts for a higher abv product.

[blond.chap]

The last part I like :handgestures-thumbupleft: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
Just found this,it appears that these rice grains only contain the mould/spores,so I spose this would allow you to use whatever yeast you wanted :think:

Great, that'd be handy. That will definitely open up the opportunity for some experimentation. The corn tastes fairly sour at the moment, so I'm thinking it may be well suited to a sour mash type bourbon.

From my reading, the mould within the Chinese yeast balls are slightly different to the koji mould used in brewing sake. Net result however is still the same, with the moulds breaking starches down to sugars.

I too am hoping to try this out. Only concern is the yeast. I have a friend using the yeast balls to make Chinese rice wine. Their main complaint was that the product lacked the alcohol kick and was too sweet. I have seen other Chinese rice wine recipes that suggest after starch breakdown, to supplement with white wine to continue the fermentation process for a more alcoholic product. As such, the yeast in the balls may not have enough guts for a higher abv product.

Thanks Lupus, I wasn't sure that it was the same mould, but like you say it has a similar result.

It's interesting that your friend said that, from what I've read about the yeast balls they're supposed to ferment to a fairly high abv and lose the sweetness after a few weeks. It will be interesting to see after a couple of weeks what the corn and millet taste like. Certainly if it seems to be lacking adding some wine or even bakers yeast is an option.

[wolbi74]

Hi Guys,

I have used these before and didnt like the result.
I used them in both TPW and Bourbon. In both cases it didnt work an dI had to add more bakers yeast.

There are also two different types of the balls. one is normal yeast and theres wine yeast.

Tried both and they didint work out for me...

[blond.chap]

Thanks for the feedback wolbi, I didn't realise there were multiple types.

Mine seems to be fermenting ok by itself, how did you make the bourbon?

[Lupus]

Wolbi,
Main benefit of the yeast balls is not so much the yeast, but the moulds contained within to get conversion of starch to fermentable sugars. The use of the balls in TPW would probably not gain much.

Was your bourbon all grain? Or a sugar head? And what issues did you have for not liking it?

[Lupus]

BC
I would be curious as to how much alcohol the balls will produce. While the use of different grains may produce slightly different results, I would be curious how much alcohol can be produced. If possible please keep us updated.

I am trying to help this friend trouble shoot their rice wine.

[blond.chap]

BC
I would be curious as to how much alcohol the balls will produce. While the use of different grains may produce slightly different results, I would be curious how much alcohol can be produced. If possible please keep us updated.

I am trying to help this friend trouble shoot their rice wine.

No worries Lupus, I will defiantly let you know.

The millet already has an alcoholic flavour to it. The difficult bit will be determining the alcohol content because both mixes are almost solid. I think the best indicator will be when I get a full wash going, then see how what the output from the still is like.

[wynnum1]

Miso uses similar mould.

[invisigoth]

ok. whilst my current stuff has been making sake, that has been as the first step to making shochu. i will be doing further experiments with other grains and sweet potato. as far as using the rice balls for further fermentations, you would only be able to use the yeast. what you have with the balls and also the koji packet is the mould grown on rice, then dried, so there is some rice mixed in with it. as far as it's use, it's analogous to using malted grains. once it's spent its spent and you have to use a new lot. ;-)

[blond.chap]

ok. whilst my current stuff has been making sake, that has been as the first step to making shochu. i will be doing further experiments with other grains and sweet potato. as far as using the rice balls for further fermentations, you would only be able to use the yeast. what you have with the balls and also the koji packet is the mould grown on rice, then dried, so there is some rice mixed in with it. as far as it's use, it's analogous to using malted grains. once it's spent its spent and you have to use a new lot. ;-)

Cool, thanks for the info. So does the mould die off in the later stages of fermentation then?

I was thinking of posting this in your thread, but didn't want to take it off topic too far.

[invisigoth]

cupcake: where did you find that koji? was it an australian site? i couldn't find anywhere here in oz that has it, but i know you can get it in the states.

blond chap. well as far as i know the mould is already dead when you put it in. but the enzymes remain. again kinda like malted grain can no longer sprout after you have dried it after malting.

[Cane Toad]

http://www.ichibajunction.com.au/en/pro ... 06476.html

Yeah an Aussie site :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft: Mail order and all that crap :handgestures-thumbupleft:
As I said earlier,all this talk about AG and malting,now we've added mould to the equation :scared-eek: no wonder I drink :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
Just ordered 2 packets :handgestures-thumbupleft: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[invisigoth]

As I said earlier,all this talk about AG and malting,now we've added mould to the equation :scared-eek: no wonder I drink :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

oh that's nothing. my first starter had an incubation step with yoghurt to use the bacteria to produce lactic acid for acidification 8-}

:laughing-rolling: i love this hobby!

[blond.chap]

As I said earlier,all this talk about AG and malting,now we've added mould to the equation :scared-eek: no wonder I drink :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

oh that's nothing. my first starter had an incubation step with yoghurt to use the bacteria to produce lactic acid for acidification 8-}

:laughing-rolling: i love this hobby!

mmmm, yoghurt wine

also, I mentioned "Chinese yeast balls" to a mate today and he asked "is that some king of venereal disease"?

[invisigoth]

just as a thought, for using koji, you need to make sure you are using enough. for my rice stuff you use 20-25% of total dried weight, so for 100g total rice it would be say 25g dry koji and 75g dry weight of rice prior to steaming it. sunrice nutritional facts has rice at 79% carb, which is essentially starch. i believe starch content of pearled millet is about 60% but you might wanna double check that. the upshot is you will need to use a bit less koji that you would for rice. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Cane Toad]

Well my koji infected rice arrived today :handgestures-thumbupleft:

If this stuff is grown on the rice grain before being packaged,they certainly make sure you get plenty of bang for your buck

It looks like these grains have already been half devoured :laughing-rolling: