All grain - advice needed

[TheMechwarrior]

All,

Finally making the leap to AG and want to generate enough beer/wash for a minimum 100L stripping run, 300L would be even better :D.

But at present I have a mix of vessel sizes and I suspect I'll need to upgrade.

Vessels I have:
120L boiler (7.6, 9.6 or 10.8kW)
50L keg boiler (2.4 or 3.6kW)
50L esky
60L stainless drum
plenty of fermenter space

I have everything needed to make a HERMS or a RIMS.

I've looked at Mac's Mega Mash Monsta and imagine I'd build that but can't find any 300L eskies down my way atm, so figured I'd start with what I have.

What is the most efficient use of what I have to produce the maximum amount of AG whisky wash?

Cheers,

Mech.

[Guppy]

I might be a bit confused with what you've said so bear with me if I get it wrong.
This is what I would do and similar to my 3V all grain setup.

Use the 50 litre esky as your mash tun and if you build a Herms or rims recirculate through that.

With a 50 litre mash tun you can do a 60 litre batch and sparge to get the required volume. Then ferment in the 60 litre stainless drum. I easily fit a 50 litre wash gran bill in my 50 litre mash tun keg.

You could also use your 50 litre keg boiler as a HLT to heat your water up prior to doughing in.

I'm not sure why you want to do a 100 litre stripping run as you would need to mash and ferment 100 litres to do so. (It's just barely possible with a 50 litre mash tun although she's going to be chockers and you would need to sparge 3-4 times. I've done it but it was a real bitch of a day. (Not Likley you will be able to recirculate through your Herms either) But then you can only ferment 60 litres anyway unless you get some 30 litre plastic fermenters and split the batch.
I would ferment 60 litres at a time and then strip and wait until you've got 120 litres and do a product run.
You could mash and ferment 60 litres, wait until it's finished and pour out 55 litres to strip. Then do another mash and pour this on top of the yeast cake. Collect 110 litres of low wines and do a spirit run.

[Brendan]

For now, I'd say buy a couple of BIAB bags (and a couple of $2 laundry bags), and have a go at my Simple All Grain Bourbon thread.

I would use the 120L boiler for strike water, and the 60L drum and 50L esky as mashing vessels (would have to insulate the stainless drum though). :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Brendan]

I wouldn't bother with sparging unless you're making beer.

Ferment on the grain :D

[TheMechwarrior]

Roger that lads, well I already have a couple of BIAB bags as well as a heap of voile ready to make some more.
I imagined I'd use the 60L and wrap it something cosy, I'll employ the 50L esky as well as suggested, running 2 mashes simultaneously.

Estimating 14kg of grain for the 50L esky and 16.6kg of grain for the 60L drum.
Does that sound about right?

Cheers,

Mech.

[bt1]

Caution: Major work load ahead....hope your prepared for it mech cos it's hard yakka


bt1

[TheMechwarrior]

Thanks bt1...the very reason I've avoided it all these years :?

But it's something essential I need to get my head around as I'd like to scale up and experiment with different grain bills.

[bt1]

Sorry Mech,

Beersmith is stuffed can't work your yields out...

a couple comments

I'd add some rice hulls=sticking, I would sparge even with BIAB it's worth a few yield points.
Add some acidulated malt to lower the mash pH/improve efficiency.
Also over run normal mash times by plenty to gain the max arse yield.
Do a protein rest dependant on grains,
Also buy the enzyme for better conversion rates
Gelatinise corn first then drop temp back if being used for max starch break down

bout it at the mo...enjoy bloke

bt1

[brad81]

What SG are you shooting for?

Have you run the numbers through something like brewmate or beersmith? Brewmate is free, and beersmith has a trial period (bit more stuffing about to set it up right though).

I haven't had much luck brewing high gravity beers with BIAB in the past, highest I have gotten is around 1075

[Guppy]

When you said AG I just assumed a scotch type whiskey without corn. Especially as you said you wanted to build a Herms or rims. You won't be able to circulate through a Herms or rims with a corn mash..My bad.

I have 2 x 100 litre stainless fermenters and mash in that when I do a corn whiskey, same as Brendan's method and ferment on the grains. The first few times I strained through BIAB bags and it was a PITA. So now I jug 50 litres of fermented wash through my mashtun and drain out the bottom through the false bottom. Then strip 42 litres at a time in my keg boiler.

For subsequent generations I mash 50 litres in my MLT and strain through the false bottom and pour that onto the lees left in my 100 litre fermenter. So then I have less grains in my fermenter to have to strain before my next stripping run. I keep going, stripping and doing another mash until I have enough low wines to do a product run.

[Guppy]

If your doing all grain scotch without corn add some rice hulls if your using herms or rims but you won't get 14 kgs of grain in a 50 litre mash tun and rice hulls and enough water to get a decent recirculation.

If your using corn forget the herms/rims and rice hulls.

[bt1]

Guppy congrats,

Damn fine advice there...

That's the first time I've seen a multi V bloke step up with a work flow...nice :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Need to talk to you about my 3V plans for beers...would appreciate the feedback and sorting out bloody plumbing.

cheers ears
bt1

[TheMechwarrior]

Great stuff guys!

I'm looking to do grain bills with and without corn, eventually almost without exception without. Initially is just for my own learning and I think I like corn whisky, based on the CFW I've made.

I'll check out the brew programs tonight to see what they have to say and I may even suck-it-up tomorrow and grab the single 120L esky so I don't have to worry about more than one mash at a time.

I assume that if I choose to use corn or rye that a stock false bottom or manifold in the bottom of my esky will be a no go?
Thanks @Guppy for pointing out the HERMS would be problematic for a corn mash, I hadn't considered it at all.
I've been talking to a mate of mine who's currently building a 3V system but he's all about beer and I need to be talking to blokes like you who understand a whisky wash.

Any tips for enzyme sources? I did see a seller on ebay many months back selling Alpha Amylase by the pound, is that the only enzyme I need to worry about?

Cheers,

Mech.

[Guppy]

Guppy congrats,

Damn fine advice there...

That's the first time I've seen a multi V bloke step up with a work flow...nice :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Need to talk to you about my 3V plans for beers...would appreciate the feedback and sorting out bloody plumbing.

cheers ears
bt1

No probs mate happy to help fire away when ready.