another 'my first tpw run' lol

[Turtl3]

hi all, did my first tpw run last night. i followed the recipe to a t. using my puredistilling reflux/25l boiler and recirc cooling

i tossed the first 150ml, and continued to collect 8 jars in 300ml cuts, they are currently airing as we speak. i stopped at jar number 8 because the temp in the column had risen to 86deg and it was smelling pretty nasty.
i didnt do a stripping run first, as i really wanted to get this one done to see what the final product is like... instead of waiting to strip another 2 tpws to do a bigger run of all 3.

1.does a combined total of 2.4L of heads, hearts and tails sound about right?
2.do i need to make my cuts smaller than 300ml?
3.how important is the cooling water temp/flow rate? i could feel a small amount of heat on the outlet hose but it wouldnt have been more than 30-35deg. should i slow the flow rate down a little to bring the temp up slightly, or is cooler better?
4.is a stripping run still really necessary in a reflux still? should i bight the bullet and remove the packing for 3 tpw strips and then repack for a combined cuts run?
5.i read the kiwistillers novice guide to fractions and cuts, and there was a note in there about it being unnecessary to rerun feints with a reflux still-they should just be tossed? is this correct or should i be collecting more into the tails for a feints run anyway?

sorry for all the questions guys, ive done a fair bit of reading but your expertise would be really appreciated.

[WTDist]

hi all, did my first tpw run last night. i followed the recipe to a t. using my puredistilling reflux/25l boiler and recirc cooling

i tossed the first 150ml, and continued to collect 8 jars in 300ml cuts, they are currently airing as we speak. i stopped at jar number 8 because the temp in the column had risen to 86deg and it was smelling pretty nasty.
i didnt do a stripping run first, as i really wanted to get this one done to see what the final product is like... instead of waiting to strip another 2 tpws to do a bigger run of all 3.

1.does a combined total of 2.4L of heads, hearts and tails sound about right? Including fores i think i average somewhere between 3 and 3.5L for 5kg sugar in 25L wash. you stopped the run too early maybe or you have a leak (happened to me before)
2.do i need to make my cuts smaller than 300ml? I would for the heads and tails. when i know im in the hearts for sure i collect in 1L amounts but that's when i have have low wines in the boiler. i would stick to 300 ml for hearts on one run but dial it back to 150 to 200 ml for the heads and tails until you know your mark :handgestures-thumbupleft:
3.how important is the cooling water temp/flow rate? i could feel a small amount of heat on the outlet hose but it wouldn't have been more than 30-35deg. should i slow the flow rate down a little to bring the temp up slightly, or is cooler better? I like to have a slow steady stream that resembles a toothpick that occasionally breaks. i move the temp up as the run progresses to keep this steady stream. to fast and you can smear the run
4.is a stripping run still really necessary in a reflux still? should i bight the bullet and remove the packing for 3 tpw strips and then repack for a combined cuts run?I cant strip yet with my T500 but 2 runs by far is better. double distilled wash is far superior quality :handgestures-thumbupleft:
5.i read the kiwistillers novice guide to fractions and cuts, and there was a note in there about it being unnecessary to rerun feints with a reflux still-they should just be tossed? is this correct or should i be collecting more into the tails for a feints run anyway? collect it all. what kiwistiller is referring to is don't rerun feints from a feints run. collect all your heads and tails (now called feints) and run them as low wines. then the heads and tails of that run you do not distill again. just use as a cleaning product or fire starter.

sorry for all the questions guys, ive done a fair bit of reading but your expertise would be really appreciated.

[Turtl3]

great info there, thanks mate.

so from what your saying there would still be a fair bit of alcohol left after i stopped collecting when i could definately smell the tails?, it just needs to be cut out properly? ive not seen any signs of leaking from the boiler/lid, and theres definitely no vapour loss from the top of the column. possibly the seal where the column is fixed to the lid?

maybe i will change my ways for the better and just run 3 washes at once, then combine it all to do a final cuts run, maybe even double distill depending on quality?
ive noticed that at the later stages of stilling i can hear a 'harsh boiling' sort of a sound in the boiler itself and the temp gauge seem to fluctuate by a couple of degrees. eg it will climb to 84 and drop to 81, but i have a consistent water flow? could this be to do with wind or outside temps?

i still have a lot of learning/trial and error to get through. hopefully ill get there one day.

when doing my initial runs to get the 'low wines' (im guessing that the combination of heads/hearts/tails diluted down to 40% without any cuts) should i leave the tap open as its coming up to temp and collect as soon as it starts condensing? or leave the tap shut and let it settle for 10-15mins when it reaches it boiling temp of around 78-79deg.

i know going by temperature isnt the proper way to predict the product abv or quality, but at what temp roughly should i stop collecting - just as a guide? given that 100deg would just be water coming out.

[Turtl3]

bump. advice please

[kimbodious]

Hey Turt,
My first TPW run today. I discarded 150 ml fores and then took 8 x 300 ml cuts - just like you. On the last jar the temperature ramped up by a couple of degrees so I stopped it there. Mine is meant to be a stripping run but I took the opportunity to practise cuts. I have not measured the ABV yet. I am airing the product in the jars and after a sniff test tomoz I will do an ABV read on the hearts. I am using a Keggomax CM reflux column on a 50l beer keg boiler powered by a 2200w element.

[Zak Griffin]

I know it's only a practice run, but if you make 150-200ml cuts you will end up with more hearts than if you take 300ml cuts ;-)

[kimbodious]

Zak, thanks for the great tip!

[kimbodious]

Turt,
As to how much product I was expecting from 24 litres of TPW wash I am basing my estimate on what someone said the ABV of the wash being between 10 and 14%. I factored on 12% (not measured) in 24 l of wash or hypothetically 3l product at 96% assuming 100% distilling efficiency. Let's say our 2.55l of product including fires is an average 90% ABV from a hypothetically possible 3 litres we achieved an efficiency of 76%. Someone will chime in if we should have achieved a better efficiency or most likely that my calcs are off. Anyway it seems both of us erred on the side of caution and stopped the run maybe a bit early but would depend on time and energy required to extract even more product. Somebody? In the interests of learning whatever I can I am happy to be corrected! :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Turtl3]

well im doing another run today, so towards the end of it i will start collecting into a test tube and check the abv as i go. ill collect down to maybe 10 or 15% as im purely doing a stripping run this time. i will report back with a temp even though i know temperature isnt the correct way to gauge anything. more or less a future reference for myself to know exactly when to stop stripping

[kimbodious]

Turt,

I will be interested to learn how long between the temp starting to ramp up eg >1 degree per minute and when your ABV is getting as low as 20%

My thermometer is definitely SNAFU so I just use it for monitoring changes rather than absolute readings!

Yeah likewise, I have another TPW wash ready to go in to the boiler!

cheers!

[Turtl3]

last night i stopped collecting when it was reading 25%. i had a 4.5L jacks bottle and i got about 4.2L out of the run after discarding 150ml fores. i think the tube i was using to float the alcometer holds about 100-150ml and i filled it about 10 times to monitor abv towards the end. i called it quits at 25% as it was starting to look a bit murky, the bottle was almost full and dinner was getting cold haha.

I think i messed up with my first 2 washes, im pretty sure i didnt use the no added salt tomato paste. for the wash i mixed up yesterday i did use the no added salt tom paste, it started fermenting almost instantaneously and its going strong :).

the temperature was really fluctuating according to the thermometer at the end of the run. with the tap on the tube open, it was readin 99.8-100degC, with the tap closed it would drop back down to roughly 82deg after it had a couple of minutes to settle.

im guessing you could collect a full 4.5-5L (as you use 5kg of sugar) if your only stripping it, as you would obviously be making cuts on the low wines run.

[kimbodious]

Great info thanks Turt. How long did the entire run take and how long did it take once the temp started to quickly rise? By my cakcs your ABV in the Jacks bottle should be 84% - am I close?

[Turtl3]

Quite possibly...i will drop the alcometer in there and find out the abv% when im home on the weekend. The run once the still got to temp took about 4 hours. Turned it on at 1pm, got to temp at 2.30pm, cut fores from 2.45-3pm roughly. Collected until 6pm and then started monitoring the abv until 7pm and shut it all down :handgestures-thumbupleft: so essentially its producing 1lph

I noticed the temp starting to climb between the 2.5l and 3l mark where it hit 85-86deg. After that it climbed alot quicker but like it said, the thermometer reading completely changed in regards to having the collection tube valve open or closed

[kimbodious]

Thanks Turt for the info :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Average ABV of the hearts from my first TPW run was 89%. Mixed a subsample down with water to 40% and had a taste test, nom nom nom :smile: - couldn't smell or taste anything that gave any reason to polish it