Proofing down product

[genejonesiii]

Ok I have an lm reflux column with lieberge condenser. I run real high abv around 90% abv. I love the taste of sweet corn liquor but when I tried to cut the proof it taste flat. Any ideas

[Zak Griffin]

G'day Gene. First off, welcome to the forums :) you might want to chuck a welcome thread up and introduce yourself.

As for your dilemma, pulling 90+% is going to strip most of the flavour from your spirit. If you want to keep the sweet taste, you really want to be using a pot still... If you're pulling 90% and then watering down to 40%, you've only got a tiny percentage of flavour in there.

[bt1]

gene,

A straight corn can be a real nice drink but you don't finish at a good drink by mistake.

What sort of wash used?
Grain bill?
Quality of corn used?
yeast type?
Processed used... mashed?, straight add?, ferment temp?

Really need to know where your starting from to firm up the right destination.

bt1

[genejonesiii]

I start by sprouting corn. I smoke it dry it and
Grind it with a stone grinder. 20
Gallon wash. I put 10# sugar and 10# corn. I cook the corn at 150
Deg f and put alpha amylase and let her go
For an hour. Drop her to 120
And add gluco amylase. Let cool to around 110
And pitch dady yeast. Also add 1 pound corn
Dextrose
And a cup of dap and then add a b vitamin complex and let her cook


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[Bushy]

Wow. What a comeback. :D

[Kimbo]

Ok I have an lm reflux column with lieberge condenser. I run real high abv around 90% abv. I love the taste of sweet corn liquor but when I tried to cut the proof it taste flat. Any ideas

Does it go a little cloudy when you dilute it mate?

[Kimbo]

Ok I have an lm reflux column with lieberge condenser. I run real high abv around 90% abv. I love the taste of sweet corn liquor but when I tried to cut the proof it taste flat. Any ideas

Edit: adding water will not only dilute the ABV, it can also dilute the flavour too mate.
think of it as smoothing out your product, Just as the people at Whisky tasting conventions usually dilute even further to bring out different flavours. You may prefer yours a little harsher, you can always add some heads and tails back in to suit your taste :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[crow]

Ok I have an lm reflux column with lieberge condenser. I run real high abv around 90% abv. I love the taste of sweet corn liquor but when I tried to cut the proof it taste flat. Any ideas

Making whiskey with a Reflux still
You can make whiskey with a reflux still, it tricky and not what I would recommend but it can be done and even some commercial mob do it. Heads are heads but with a reflux still trying to achieve full flavoured spirit like whiskey, not all "tails" are tails. With a reflux still your hearts will be close to neutral even ran fast as that is the nature of the beast, it separates efficiently but the flavours you want haven't disappeared or cease to exist , they are in your jars. Run your still as normal til heads are done then speed it up some and do small cuts.
Cuts and back blending
running the still a bit faster will cause some slight smearing and in your case that is a good thing however it your still is an efficient reflux still the hearts will still be pretty neutral and not what you would call a whiskey so you are going to have to back bend to reintroduce those esters and compounds the make up whiskey. Taste your tail cuts, quarter fill a table spoon and top up with water to taste, work your way along them til you come to one with a distinct bitter flavour and back blend all the proceeding cuts to this one (the bitter one and all subsequent tail cuts are true "whiskey" tails) As for heads with a reflux still they are to compressed to fuck around with :handgestures-thumbupleft:
PS your condenser is called a Leibig by the way ;-)

[ticknaylor]

G'day Gene. First off, welcome to the forums :) you might want to chuck a welcome thread up and introduce yourself.

As for your dilemma, pulling 90+% is going to strip most of the flavour from your spirit. If you want to keep the sweet taste, you really want to be using a pot still... If you're pulling 90% and then watering down to 40%, you've only got a tiny percentage of flavour in there.

Bubblers run at 92% and produce a fully flavoured product its the nature of a reflux still not the ABV that determines this :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[bt1]

Hello gene,

seems like you got the process nailed. I was thinking of much simpler causes...

Are you on rainwater for instance and could it be due to seasonal change in water qualities... anything changed in water types used for instance.

I found that higher alkaline waters ( we have a shocker here) really does make a good spirit feel "flat/dull/floury"

Trust it's not been an issue previously and if that's the case it may just be taking a good look at what's changed...

left over sterilising residues in storage or fermenters for instance have this effect if sulphur based.

EDIT:

And a cup of dap and then add a b vitamin complex and let her cook

a cup of DAP for 75lt wash is way over what I'd be comfortable using....I'd use 1/10 of that

hope it helps bt1

[genejonesiii]

thanks for all the replies. I have some corn likker that I charters, I added distilled water and it has been sitting for around a month. i have it in a dark cool place and in a burnt white oak barrell. I tried a shot the other day and it is sweet, you can still taste the corn a little bit. I have a modular reflux I think I might change the condenser for a cm managment still. Would this enhance the flavor or would it make it more neutral? I I did this i could use it as a cm still or an lm still. I like the modular cause I have it in a small building outside and it doesnt take up alot of space.

[genejonesiii]

Kimbo, yes it does get cloudy when I dilute. It is not real bad but it definitely is not as clear.

[genejonesiii]

I knew it started with a l, i should get credit for that. :)) :)) :)) . Thanks for the terminology

[genejonesiii]

bti
I don't measure out a cup, I probably need to but i just fill my hands and throw it in. So it not near that much but I should have posted the correct amount. a ten pound back will last me 15 to 20 washes. I am going to try a mash soon. Will the flavor profile be stronger with an ag recipe?

[bt1]

gene,

For some idea in a 60lt wash, I use 2 x only slightly heaped teaspoons max so about 16 - 18gm of DAP.

10lb = 4500gm /20 washes that's = 225gm per wash...definitely will effect spirit at that rate.

bt1

[Kimbo]

Kimbo, yes it does get cloudy when I dilute. It is not real bad but it definitely is not as clear.

This tells me that you could be going too deep into the tails.
This can really affect the flavor :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[genejonesiii]

Ok if it gets cloudy I am too deep in the tails, that makes sense and I will make sure I lower the dap. I love this forum wow

[Dominator]

You should be able to smell/taste tails well before it gets cloudy.