Bubble plates

Just starting out and need some advise? then post it in here.

Re: Bubble plates

Postby CyBaThUg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:29 am

Is there a thread specific for cap builds can't find much specifics
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby warramungas » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:55 am

Doubleuj wrote:
warramungas wrote:That top picture is speccy but it wouldn't need a downcomer pipe in the middle. Just a hole as anything that makes it over the top can go downwards. Its like one of those caps with the downcomer in the middle just on a larger scale.
I built something similar for my 2" column.


You'd still need a downcomer to act as a vapour lock :-B


The internal bit, I'm presuming by the picture there's no slots in the middle and whatever overflows would be the return, would be the riser.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby Zak Griffin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:11 pm

Can someone please explain to me how this plate works? Where is the riser?
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby bluc » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:26 pm

See the holes on inside of brown ring. The hole brown bit is the riser. Distance from plate to holes is bath depth. At least I think so :-B would need downcommer shorter than bath depth though..
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby Zak Griffin » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:40 pm

No, the downcomer is what sets the bath depth...

The whole ring can't be a riser, the riser has to be taller than bath depth.

Is there heaps of small diameter risers inside the donut?
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby woodduck » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:29 pm

I'm with you zak, I can't follow :think:
If that whole ring doesn't have a bottom and is the "riser" it can't work as a bubble cap, it is then just a side injecting perf plate. It would need to be run the same, plenty of power so the liquid doesn't just run back out the slots at the bottom. If thats the case it would still need a downcomer to set the bath level or it wouldn't have reflux. If you are then just relying on those few slots around the bottom for bubbles you wouldn't have anywhere near as many as a perf plate....

Whilst writing this I had a thought... if there was another ring in the middle of the colomn wall and the slot wall with holes up high it would then become a riser wall and then be bubble cap...mmmm

You might be onto something, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby ThePaterPiper » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:19 pm

Hey Flowerpot,

Any further thoughts on this concept? I am keen to see where you are at.

For the rest of you gents,

Is there a ratio of thoroughfare for want of a better word for vapour path up to downcomer down in each plate. Specifically for a 4" bubble cap plate? Sorry if it has been discussed, I have read so many posts, I just can't seem to find it.

The reason I ask, and to belay any fears of a thread hijacking :)) is that it may help with this concept. It may be that the larger ring of slots or holes may be excessive and flood the ring and oscillate between producing bubbles and not. It would have to be best to be able to produce greater than enough pressure to completely displace the pool of liquid which would mean restricting vapour flow to some degree at the slots / holes.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby Flowerpot » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:33 am

sorry... post an idea with a krappy confusing picture then get flooded with actual paid work :angry-banghead: hopefully i'll be able to get out to the shed soonish and slap a prototype together that will be a bit more easy to understand.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby Flowerpot » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:04 pm

I'm back :greetings-waveyellow:

I've banged a tryout very roughly together enough to see how it is supposed to work.

Bottom plate: pretty normal downcomer in the middle. The holes around the edge are for rising vapours (should really be as big as possible or even curved slots)
20170801_205118.jpg


Bubbly bit: pretty much just an inside-out bubble cap
20170801_205005.jpg


Inside the still they would fit together like this The outside wall of the still forms part of the riser.
20170801_210004.jpg


Looking from the bottom. It really looks like it needs those holes joined together, looks really restrictive atm.
20170801_205153.jpg


Assembled looking in from the top
20170801_205224.jpg


Had tried to make the "bubbly bit" a pretty tight fit in the still tube so it would not need sealing. Will see, may have to solder it in or seal it some other way. Now I think about it, it will need a dab of solder to hold it in place or it will rattle around like crazy.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby woodduck » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:37 am

Nice one, love the creatively :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Looks like it will work so it’s definitely worth a try. My only concern would be that there may not be as much plate area for activity but then again multi caps take up room aswel I guess but in saying that they do have slots all the way around them mmmm :-B I look forward to hearing the results. Keep up the good work mate.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby db1979 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:37 am

I don't think your downcomer is wide enough and won't allow fast enough draining. This leads to flooding of the plate forcing you to run it slower.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby scythe » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:47 pm

Also might need to flare the top of the downcomer to help stop flooding the downcomer.
As for bottom plate holes they do look quite restrictive.
I would remove all of it except for 4 sections about 5mm long equidistant at 90° between, like really long curved slots.

You will also need a method of directing the condensate to the outside of the module below.
If each plate drops into the centre alot of your reflux will just shortcut back to the boiler.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby Flowerpot » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:48 pm

Thanks guys. Good point about the downcomer i think it needs to be bigger too. i was thinking a simple disc on the bottom of the downcomer would work to distribute the condensate outwards.

going to slap it on my boiler now and see what happens.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby Flowerpot » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:02 pm

it bloody works. :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance: :happy-partydance:
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby woodduck » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:03 pm

Picks and or video?
I gotta see these things in action :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby ThePaterPiper » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:33 pm

Yes, video please!!! or pics at least... no. Video!!! :text-lol:
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby ThePaterPiper » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:39 pm

is the copper of the downcomer enough to deal with the sulphates or will you have some of your column in copper?
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby db1979 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:45 pm

I think you'll want copper in the vapour path rather than liquid path. Even though some vapour will get close to the downcomers you'll want copper somewhere where all the vapour comes past. The reaction between the copper and sulphides will probably happen in the liquid phase but will happen a lot faster in vapour phase.
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby hillzabilly » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:30 pm

Nice one ,maybe your top plate could be held down to the bottom plate with 3-4 stainless spring's,call that Mk 1 for sure.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Bubble plates

Postby hillzabilly » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Flowerpot wrote:Thanks guys. Good point about the downcomer i think it needs to be bigger too. i was thinking a simple disc on the bottom of the downcomer would work to distribute the condensate outwards.

going to slap it on my boiler now and see what happens.

Or solder a 90"elbow of 1/4 -3/8 inch onto the side of the downcomer cup like this.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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