looking for information on cuts

[seehuusen]

Gents,

I'm about to start stilling for the first time. I understand the principle; Fores, Heads, Hearts and Tails.

I'm uncertain on how you estimate how much fores there potentially needs to be taken off, from a wash. I presume the larger was requires a larger amount to be taken off. Reading online, some say 50ml others 200ml, but I don't always get a batch size for the wash. Is there a way to calculate this to better get an understanding of this value?

The above question is obviously the main reason for the second follow up question (I don't want to drink poison).

Is there a reference, where I can gain an understanding of the different types of chemicals coming out of the still, Alcohol included, e.g. Methanol (varieties?) then Ethanol (varieties?) then ??? then water (presumably being the last thing coming out of the still 8-}

I have spoken to a few people, they of course all bring up the "mate, you'll go blind when home distilling". I can appreciate that this might be the case if you get greedy, but I'd essentially like to be able to, scientifically, explain how the process works. Both for my benefit, but also to ease up some of the skeptics among my friends :-B

[Minpac]

From a safety perspective, most people take off 200ml from a 25L wash. As you have, I have read that it's closer to 50ml, but the worst heads are straight after the fores, so I've no problem chucking 200ml out - nothing much in that 200ml is ever going to come good enough to put in a drink. I normally do this on the strip runs.

Foreshots are first as acetone and methanol are the first compounds to evaporate from the wash, and you'll learn to smell the difference once the ethyl acetate comes through. Note that real world isn't as clean cut as the theory as the fores can smear, as there are complex interactions in a mix of compounds that can form alternate boiling points - see azeotropes. Also, vapours can mix in the column, etc. So, some small portion of methanol may make it through into a spirit run, but will end up in the heads cuts, not in your hearts.

The actual amount will depend on the type of wash, nutrient levels, yeast, stressors, temperature and a host of other factors, so it's difficult to pin down exactly, hence the general rule of 200ml per 25l wash.

I made a post under here that I put together when researching the topic:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10486&start=20#wrap

Have a look at page 24 of the compleat distiller (viewtopic.php?f=47&t=3522)

Have a look here for some more info, if you're doing whiskey type stuff(whiskey wash is very similar to beer):
http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/w ... _Meyer.pdf



The science is all there, if your friends will listen -you can look up the charts for boiling points and evap rates for each azeotrope formed and show why the fractions come off when they do. Double distilling helps to strip the wash and then carefully spirit run, which helps to clearly separate the fractions in the low wines.

[hillzabilly]

Have a read of http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic ... 859.cheers hillzabilly ;-)

[seehuusen]

Super helpful links and information, much appreciated :-bd

[Kenster]

Min... nicely put buddy.
Strange how we dont have to convince our mates when we have done the research. A bit of reading goes a long way.

[Sparrow]

I'm just gonna jump on this thread, I've read a lot about cuts from pot still, but nothing really for bubbler, is there any reference material anywhere for running a bubbler? When to collect, how much to discard and how far to take it into the low wines/feints?

[Sam.]

Same concept for any still bud, collect in small amounts and determine the cuts by smell and taste.

Only difference between a bubbler and a pot still is that the cut will be larger and easier to define :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Sparrow]

Same concept for any still bud, collect in small amounts and determine the cuts by smell and taste.

Only difference between a bubbler and a pot still is that the cut will be larger and easier to define :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Isn't the range going to be tighter though? My understanding was that you collect in the 90s to mid 80s and with a bubbler?

[Sam.]

Same concept for any still bud, collect in small amounts and determine the cuts by smell and taste.

Only difference between a bubbler and a pot still is that the cut will be larger and easier to define :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Isn't the range going to be tighter though? My understanding was that you collect in the 90s to mid 80s and with a bubbler?

Yeah that's what I mean by the cut will be larger as in the hearts cut will be larger as heads a tails are compressed much better in a bubbler as apposed to a pot still :handgestures-thumbupleft: