Propagating yeast for big wash

Just starting out and need some advise? then post it in here.

Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Vicki55 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:52 pm

Good afternoon all, i am really hoping someone can help with a little information.

My hubby is wanting to create a 200 liter wash using his newly cleaned out and sanitized ex-olive barrel, but instead of using bakers yeast this time he is wanting to try Still Spirits Dry Vodka yeast.

We have one packet and it was suggested we try to make propagate our own growing enough for a big starter, we already have a stir plate but no idea on what to do.

Any help would be much appreciated
Vicki55
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:50 pm
equipment: Turbo 500

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Matt_Pl » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:30 pm

Hi Vicki,

Im not familiar with the Dry yeast, but i use the 220 litre fermenters for my sugar washes all the time.

I mix all teh sugar/hot water/tomato paste wash all with a battery drill and a Bunnings paint stirrer. Once the wash temp is below 30oC I make a yeast bomb.

A yeast bomb is made in a large bowl with couple of teaspoons of sugar, a crushed up vitamin B tablet and enough boiling water to mix it all together, once mixed add cold water to get the temp below 30oC, then add in your yeast. Let it sit for 30 mins. Pour the contents of the bowl into the fermenter and stur again with the paint sturer and battery drill to add aeration and to ensure its well mixed.

Ive never had any trouble with this method, i cant see why it wouldnt work with the Dry yeast.
Matt_Pl
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:42 pm
Location: Darwin
equipment: 4" FSD Neutraliser, custom made 50 litre SS Keg Boiler powered by 4800 killer wasps.

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Doubleuj » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:31 pm

I’m not sure what a stir plate is but I always rehydrate my yeast before pitching.
In a big 5L jug I add about 1L of warm water with a spoonful of sugar and then add the yeast, stir and watch!! Don’t leave it unattended for long!! It will foam up and overflow!!!
Doubleuj
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:15 pm
Location: rockhampton qld
equipment: 4" stainless glasser

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby bluess57 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:38 pm

My suggestion is to use a yeast pitch rate calculator from a beer brewing site like https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/
From my playing with the numbers in that calculator site, one packet won't really be enough.

Assuming OG: 1.08
Wort Vol: 150L (I think leaves plenty of space)
Using 10 packets, gives a starter size of 6L , 1.3Kg of DME, gravity 1.08
How big is that stir plate ?
What is your "packet" size ? The little 11g or a 500g block
good luck
Last edited by bluess57 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bluess57
 
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:28 pm
Location: ACT
equipment: keg boiler - 4" copper bubbler

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby bluc » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:48 pm

stir plate uses a magnetic bar spinning magnetic field and a heating plate to continually stir and if need heat a liquid big with beer fellas.
The idea is get some of the wash after its mixed say a 10-20l bucket and 15 odd litres of the wash Sanitize the bucket before pouring wash in. Put some of the wash in the stir plate flask along with the yeast and the idea is to step up the size of the starter. flask first then 6-7litres once foaming well then 15l. Once 15l is foaming well add it to the rest of the wort.
I never bother but I haven't done vodka/neutral yet, I do re-hydrate yeast when doing all grain stuff..
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby bluc » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:16 pm

One other thing any wash you have out for your starter keep it airtight to avoid wild yeast and bacteria :handgestures-thumbupleft:
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Sam. » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:26 pm

Vicki55 wrote:We have one packet and it was suggested we try to make propagate our own growing enough for a big starter, we already have a stir plate but no idea on what to do.


Use you one packet to make a starter of say half a litre, once this is going full pelt transfer it to 2L of wash in another container, once this is going hard add it to 5L of wash etc. Once you reckon it's a big enough starter (I would go to about 10L) then dump that into the big wash :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Sam.
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm
Location: South Oz Straya
equipment: Original FSD 5 plate 4 inch modular bubbler SSG with hand crafted plates and parrot by Mac.
18 Gal boiler.
2 x 2400W elements and power controller.
.

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby rumsponge » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:29 pm

:text-+1:
as sam said. start small and go bigger and bigger (may take a day or two depending on Temp and aeration). In the lab we use sterile equipment but provide a lot of aeration (shaking constantly). Under these conditions (aerob, plenty of Oxygen), the yeast will grow much faster but wont make any alcohol. Once you are happy with your starter, go to your proper fermenter and treat as usual (no oxygen to make alcohol).

One other thing any wash you have out for your starter keep it airtight to avoid wild yeast and bacteria


'Airtight' is not a good word here or maybe I misunderstood. Your fermenter may explode if there is no gas exchange (yeast, when growing, will produce plenty of CO2 even in a starter). Seriously, dont worry about wild yeast at this stage. You are adding grams of dry yeast to your starter. They will outcompete any contaminant (bacteria or wild yeast) if you use some basic standards of sanitation.
cheers rs
rumsponge
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:10 pm
Location: SE QLD
equipment: FSD 4" Neutralizer, 50L keg boiler with 2x2.4kW elements, 60L and 200L fermenters

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby bluc » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:42 pm

Wash that was taken out of the fermenter that will be used for the starter.
Not the starter or the fermentation vessel. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Airtight doesnt always mean sealed, nothing in or out ie in the case of using an airlock still airtight but only in one direction. In...

I have a bad habit of writing stuff as I think it rather than how others will percieve it. I am working on it :D
Last edited by bluc on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby RC Al » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:02 pm

I just assume that ppl are half cut when posting on here anyway 8-}
RC Al
Mentor
 
Posts: 1568
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast Area
equipment: 3 plate 4" glasser
2" Potty

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Doubleuj » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:17 pm

:laughing-rolling:
RC Al wrote:I just assume that ppl are half cut when posting on here anyway 8-}
:laughing-rolling:
Who, me??? :obscene-drinkingdrunk: it is a forum dedicated to those of us that like a drink after all.
Sam, how long between upsizing from 2-5-10L do you recommend? Is it hours or days?
Doubleuj
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 3630
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:15 pm
Location: rockhampton qld
equipment: 4" stainless glasser

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby rumsponge » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:04 pm

:laughing-rolling:

no worries, i had the feeling I misunderstood you bluc.
carry on!
rumsponge
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:10 pm
Location: SE QLD
equipment: FSD 4" Neutralizer, 50L keg boiler with 2x2.4kW elements, 60L and 200L fermenters

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Sam. » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:50 am

Hours, but go by activity not a time frame :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Sam.
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm
Location: South Oz Straya
equipment: Original FSD 5 plate 4 inch modular bubbler SSG with hand crafted plates and parrot by Mac.
18 Gal boiler.
2 x 2400W elements and power controller.
.

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby prawnz » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:19 am

rumsponge wrote: treat as usual (no oxygen to make alcohol).


cheers rs


Hang on a sec , back the bus up . Have I missed something here (quite possible )

No oxygen to make alcohol ?

Am I making a mistake by aerating with with a power dill and a paint stirrer after pitching my yeast ?

I know selective quoting is fraught with danger but this just caught my eye .

Cheers Al
Last edited by prawnz on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
prawnz
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 1:44 pm
Location: The Wild West
equipment: SS Super Reflux with home made 2in 800mm packed extension with RC coil built in .

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby A&O » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:39 am

My understanding is the yeast use oxygen when then are fast multiplying, that’s when they consume nutrients & oxygen to make lots of babies, who do the same , until they mature enough to feed of the glucose to burp co2 and piss alcohol. But I’m only going by my understanding.
A&O
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Albany, WA
equipment: 4" 7 foot Blockhead Column - 5 Plate + 500mm Packed section
50L Converted upside down keg

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby Professor Green » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 am

prawnz wrote:
rumsponge wrote: treat as usual (no oxygen to make alcohol).


cheers rs


Hang on a sec , back the bus up . Have I missed something here (quite possible )

No oxygen to make alcohol ?

Am I making a mistake by aerating with with a power dill and a paint stirrer after pitching my yeast ?

I know selective quoting is fraught with danger but this just caught my eye .

Cheers Al


I think by what you are doing prawnz, you are giving the yeast a chance to start multiplying before they try to start making alcohol. You're not doing anything wrong.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
Professor Green
 
Posts: 2483
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:10 pm
Location: Victoria
equipment: FSD 100 litre milk can with 2 x 2400W elements
FSD Neutraliser
FSD Carter Head
12 litre double boiler with 2400W element

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby wynnum1 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:22 pm

wynnum1
 
Posts: 1494
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby rumsponge » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:29 pm

:text-+1:
aeration after pitching the yeast is good. gives the yeast a headstart. but yes, they wont make alcohol until they run out of oxygen.
rumsponge
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:10 pm
Location: SE QLD
equipment: FSD 4" Neutralizer, 50L keg boiler with 2x2.4kW elements, 60L and 200L fermenters

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby rumsponge » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:03 pm

here is a more scientific explanation:
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxygen_in_fermentation
rumsponge
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:10 pm
Location: SE QLD
equipment: FSD 4" Neutralizer, 50L keg boiler with 2x2.4kW elements, 60L and 200L fermenters

Re: Propagating yeast for big wash

Postby hillzabilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:09 pm

My opinion would be ,first wash in ya 200lt should be using say 6 packs of that yeast and 6kg sugar per pack,to give you a base line and give a better than average chance of a good ferment,yes growing up yeast is cheaper but with the 200lt fermenter the volumes needed are much bigger than for a 25-50lt fermenter wich most hobbyist use and the stir plates are hard ta use with more than a 5lt flask,wich is as big as ya need for a 25-50lt fermenter but for a 200lt one thats the size you would first mix up and need ta end up with at least 30-50lt starter to be equivalent to the 6packs,and a lack of yeast could stall the ferment or make it very slow ta get going giving bugs a chance to out compete the yeast and ruin ya brew,you could also try collecting the yeast trub from the first brew and refrigerate it in bottles until ya next brew and then use less packs. Propagating yeast is a skill and I would get a little practice on small brews befor risking a big 200lt ferment with no experience.I always aerate my wash and help mixing by pumping from the fermenter outlet back into the top with hose for an hour befor pitching yeast and half an hour after.cheers hillzabilly ;-)
Last edited by hillzabilly on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hillzabilly
 
Posts: 1509
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: PERTH WEST AUSSIE
equipment: 10 gallon OZARK pot still ,2inch and 3inch Nixon Stone coloum stills ,10 and 18 gal beer keg boilers,5gal thumper keg.And the one and only 4" Five Star Southern Cross .

Next

Return to Beginners Questions



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

x