Basic understanding of plate stills

[Rolls912]

Okay so I’ve been faffing around with the T500 for a year now making gin and I’m getting itchy feet.
I can’t stop looking at the plated column still section. Some impresssive hardware.
Ive hunted around but haven’t really found a post that clearly explains:
- how they work (bubblers)
- why are they better than a T500 (seriously)
- how to run them (I’ve read macstill’s but is there a more detailed version)
- what’s the percentage output?
- do the runs come out quicker (appears so). One thing that’s a killer for the T500 is the time it takes when making neutral

[hillzabilly]

Have ya read viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3117 may answer some of ya questions.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[RC Al]

You won't get much of a better description of running a still because they are all a bit different and the variables are many. The advice of just get in there and run it, is the best

The analogy of driving a car is fantastic, no manual will tell you to apply x Newton meters of torque to the steering wheel to turn a corner

An experienced driver can jump in to a car and pretty quickly work out the quirks of that particular vehicle. A learner driver has to do the hours to work things out, you have obviously done some hours, so you'll be fine when you get one :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[coffe addict]

As above, but here's my take.
2.5L an hour coming out around 90% one run and into an aging barrel. That's brown spirit.
I'm still working on my whites. Everyone seams happy enough with their 5plates and 500mm packed section.
I've run 5plates and 690mm packed and doing a stripping run and unimpressed with the result.
So I'm on the fence with neutral and may build a 2in purpose built neutral still but for browns they are another world.
They work by forcing the vapour through the fluid on each shelf the result is a good flavour retention and high purity product considerably fast than a pot still.

[RuddyCrazy]

The moment I place wash into the boiler I turn the gas on then add the all the wash in then wait for like an hour or so for the first fogging of the lower plate. Feeling the column another 1/2 an hour takes place then another 1/2 an hour until the first drip then it's on. Fill the 200ml fores glass then back into refux for 1/2 an hour then a tweak on the needle valve gets rid of the heads. Put it back into reflux for a tad longer then adjust the needle valve to give a pic stream output which should stay for the run.

Being present is paramount as things can change very quickly and one must be aware of the running still.

This is the best advise I can give but take it with a drop of water

Cheers Bryan

[Rolls912]

The moment I place wash into the boiler I turn the gas on then add the all the wash in then wait for like an hour or so for the first fogging of the lower plate. Feeling the column another 1/2 an hour takes place then another 1/2 an hour until the first drip then it's on. Fill the 200ml fores glass then back into refux for 1/2 an hour then a tweak on the needle valve gets rid of the heads. Put it back into reflux for a tad longer then adjust the needle valve to give a pic stream output which should stay for the run.

Being present is paramount as things can change very quickly and one must be aware of the running still.

This is the best advise I can give but take it with a drop of water

Cheers Bryan

Do I use this still to make super pure alcohol? Will it output 94%?
Then do a flavouring run in the same still? Does it extract more flavour?
I guess I’m still trying to understand the benefits of making the move from a T5....
I think I might start a new thread in the reflux section.
Thanks again for the advice :tools-hammerdrill:

[woodduck]

A 4" bubbler on avarage (as they are all different) should pull 90-93% alc at 2-2.5lph with good flavour carry over in a single run with 3-5 plates and 95-96% at 2-2.5lph with 4-6 plates and 500mm of packed section.

To get your head around it the best you are best off spending some time in the plated colomn build section and see what peoples results have been from their particular builds. All bubblers are different and to understand them well you need to absorb as much info on them as possible. When I first looked into building one I spent weeks reading and researching. By the time I was ready to build I felt I had a real good understanding of them and was quite comfortable when it came time to run it.

If you simply want to know what is better about a bubbler over a t500, well personally I think pretty much every thing. Faster, flavour carry over, looks, single runs, versitile, modular, no plastic bits..... the list goes on. I wouldn't use anything else now I've used a bubbler :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[db1979]

To get your head around it the best you are best off spending some time in the plated colomn build section and see what peoples results have been from their particular builds. All bubblers are different and to understand them well you need to absorb as much info on them as possible. When I first looked into building one I spent weeks reading and researching. By the time I was ready to build I felt I had a real good understanding of them and was quite comfortable when it came time to run it.

This is spot on.

Short of a documentary or animations, you've just gotta get in and read heaps. It starts making sense eventually.

[The Stig]

I guess I’m still trying to understand the benefits of making the move from a T5....
Thanks again for the advice :tools-hammerdrill:

Put simply - T500 = no flavour
...............- Bubbler = lots of flavour

I think I might start a new thread in the reflux section.

Why, your talking about plated column

[YarraRanges]

As above, but here's my take...
I've run 5plates and 690mm packed and doing a stripping run and unimpressed with the result...

Stripping runs are best done in a pot still. You'll have difficulty with a bubbler unless you remove all plates, packing and the reflux condenser.
I do 200 litre ferments which works out to four stripping runs which give a total of about 45 litres of strip at around 45-50% ABV. No cuts, just go down to about 20% where I kill the strip.
The result gives just enough for the 50 litre boiler on the bubbler.
Once the plates are full it's full reflux for half an hour to compress the fores. I take off about 3 litres before it comes clean and then I take off product which is about 22-23 litres at 90%ABV. I kill the run when it drops to 85% ABV. Tails start to come in below that and there is hardly any ethanol left in the boiler to worry about doing cuts. When diluted down to 40% drinking strength you have a very smooth neutral. It makes a great base for a gin too.

[coffe addict]

It's not my first rodeo Yarra! I easily could have configured a simple pot but stripping through five plates gives a noticeably cleaner product @92%. This was watered down to 40% and still wasn't clean enough after a slow run through 5plates and a packed section, it was just passable.
I was attempting to get complete neutral not just kinda neutral ish.
I'll be changing out the ss scrubbies for scoria and building another packed section and running with 1.35m packed which should yield better results and quicker I hope.

[db1979]

Stripping runs are best done in a pot still. You'll have difficulty with a bubbler unless you remove all plates, packing and the reflux condenser.

Stripping is easy enough in a bubbler, no need to remove plates or RC, just empty RC of water and turn off flow.
There will be more passive reflux with a bubbler in a stripping run than with a pot still but passive reflux occurs in all stills to some degree. Obviously the more plates you use on a stripping run the more passive reflux you'll get.

Yarra, if you've tried doing a strip with all 14 of your plates then you'll have a different experience than I will with my 4 plates. Most people with bubblers have a maximum of 5 plates so passive reflux isn't so bad and stripping runs in a bubbler are easy and effective. Some prefer to not strip and just use an extra plate. I haven't tried this as my plates are soldered in and I much prefer the product from a strip followed by a spirit run, so unless I make an extra modular plate, I'll continue doing it that way.

[Amberale]

Quick questionS folks.
If I strip in a Neutraliser with 5 plates but no packed section.(I can break it down to 4 plates if necessary)

Q1, no cooling flow through the RC?
Q2, what rate of product flow should I expect(using one 2400w element in a 50 ltr milk can)?

On previous “stripping runs” I have used water through the RC to keep the output to 2-2.5 ltr/hr.

Thanks AA

[Professor Green]

For the stripping run you will not need to use the RC and you can run as hard and fast as your PC can handle. The idea is to remove some of the initial unwanted compounds and bump the ABV up for a more efficient spirit run. That being said, a slower stripping run with reflux would be like doing a double spirit run so the results will probably be better but I don’t think you would notice it to be honest. A fast stripping run followed by a slow spirit run on 4 plates with a 500mm packed section has always delivered excellent results for me.

[Amberale]

Thanks Prof.
What sort of product flow rate do you get on the strip?
I’m on the wagon at the moment ( :scared-eek: ) so I’ve got a bit of time to play with quality control.

[woodduck]

Are you stripping for a neutral or a brown spirit? I wouldn't strip for brown spirits, that's the beauty of the bubblers. Hell I don't even strip for neutral. I do run 6 plates and 500mm packed section and I admittedly don't drink it as vodka.

[Amberale]

Hi Woody.
Just neutral from Freddy’s vfvw.
I usually add HBS Jameson or blue saphire cordials.
Some of my hearts are just laid down with oak chips.
I figure I might as well play around for some really clean gin base then I can talk myself into a carter head.

I’ve got a 3d gen rum to run on 4 plates when I get through the neutrals, then clean it up and start over. :)

[woodduck]

All good mate, enjoy :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Professor Green]

I can’t remember what sort of output rate I get, I’m currently at Shanghai airport waiting for a flight home so don’t have access to my records but I run 2 x 2400W elements and I generally strip 2 90 litre charges in one day.

[Amberale]

Thanks Proff.
I should be able to smash a couple of 45ltr runs easily then. :dance: