Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

Gents, I've read a few bits about yeast cells bursting giving off flavours. Does anyone use a clearing agent to cause cells to precipitate out of solution

Most just let their washes settle before filling the boiler.

What is the average time post fermentation?

I think it will depend on many things, type of wash, yeast, temperature, abv. Have a read through the relevant thread for the wash you are interested in and you should see the occasional mention of the time others leave it to settle for. I tend to run my weetbix washes as soon as they have finished fermenting, they don't tend to settle out very well anyway.

When I was making tpw I use to put my 30 litre fermenter in my temperature controlled brewing fridge and set it to 1 degree. Leave it in there for a week and it would clear nicely, in winter I would take the blankets and heat belt off and sit the fermenter outside on the cold concrete for a week of two.
In the end I gave up trying to clear it as the ones I ran straight away when fermentation had stopped tasted the same as the ones I had let settle and clear.
The biggest thing to stopping off flavours in a tpw I found were, good temp control don't let it get over 25 degrees, i brewed a lot if tpw in winter for this reason and yeast choice, ec118 works well but takes a little longer and doesn't like the heat too much.

You could use a filter that would probably work out cheaper then a clearing agent .

Flocking agents are cheap, effective and fast. I'm just wondering if anyone bothers

I wouldn't bother with clearing agents. Most of the recipes we use here clear themselves over the course of a few days to a week once fermentation is complete. The best method to avoid off flavours is to keep your yeasties happy by not stressing them with excess heat during fermentation and not shocking them when you pitch.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

Never bothered with any of the crap they sell you at the hbs. I try to keep my washes as natural as possible, no additives if I can help it. I've never had any problems from not clearing properly. Best practice would be to clear them though.

Can get a washable beer filter that does not seem to be popular with beer or probably able to use a sand filter but think have to use pressure to filter to speed up.

I have a strong interest in this also.

My experience is that inadequate clearing appears to lead to longer tails although, as we all know, there are so many variables involved that it is difficult to be absolutely certain, but the one time I allowed a considerable amount of time for clearing (3 weeks) I had the best yield I have ever had. My problem in doing that is a) added risk of infection, and b) longer disruption to the laundry :-(.

I generally run the FFV and others claim a much quicker settling than I get, but I have to say that even after 3 weeks I wouldn't have called the wash "clear" just "clearer".

I have taken a couple of 1.25L softdrink bottle sized samples to experiment with.

I have determined that, left to it's own devices, my FFV wash *never* clears entirely.
Another thing is that refrigerating the wash clears it (to my satisfaction) in a couple of days.

My conclusion is that, at (my) room temperature, Brownian motion is enough to keep a lot of the yeast in suspension indefinitely and that refrigeration and/or clearing agents are necessary to produce the level of clarity I would prefer. I have to now decide whether the extra quality of product is worth the expense of some kind of refrigeration or clearing agent solution.

I generally have good success using McKenzies Gelatine powder from IGA for about $2.50 for a jar that will last for ages.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/ho ... latin.html

Cold crashing works well though if you have an appropriate fridge/freezer setup.

Mattq71 wrote:I generally have good success using McKenzies Gelatine powder from IGA for about $2.50 for a jar that will last for ages.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/ho ... latin.html

Cold crashing works well though if you have an appropriate fridge/freezer setup.

Coincidently I was looking for some gelatine for my last batch but couldn't find any, I hadn't tried IGA.

Do you use it at room temperature or chilled as in the article you linked to?

Bundaboy wrote:I have a strong interest in this also.

My experience is that inadequate clearing appears to lead to longer tails although, as we all know, there are so many variables involved that it is difficult to be absolutely certain, but the one time I allowed a considerable amount of time for clearing (3 weeks) I had the best yield I have ever had. My problem in doing that is a) added risk of infection, and b) longer disruption to the laundry :-(.

I generally run the FFV and others claim a much quicker settling than I get, but I have to say that even after 3 weeks I wouldn't have called the wash "clear" just "clearer".

I have taken a couple of 1.25L softdrink bottle sized samples to experiment with.

I have determined that, left to it's own devices, my FFV wash *never* clears entirely.
Another thing is that refrigerating the wash clears it (to my satisfaction) in a couple of days.

My conclusion is that, at (my) room temperature, Brownian motion is enough to keep a lot of the yeast in suspension indefinitely and that refrigeration and/or clearing agents are necessary to produce the level of clarity I would prefer. I have to now decide whether the extra quality of product is worth the expense of some kind of refrigeration or clearing agent solution.

When refrigerate it stops the yeast that may be part why it clears better when cold.

wynnum1 wrote:When refrigerate it stops the yeast that may be part why it clears better when cold.

Yes the yeast goes to "sleep" in the cold, but they also go to sleep when they run out of food, but I suppose there is the argument that there is enough "food" available in the wash to keep a certain percentage of the yeast alive for quite a while, as I say there are many variables, none-the-less Brownian motion is well known to keep microscopic particulates in suspension in a liquid.

Actually, I have not seen any claim or evidence that yeast can "swim" (anyone?), so whether they are awake or not they should still fall out of suspension. OTOH the fact they are excreting CO2 and alcohol whilst they are awake may be enough to keep them afloat, then again, the sheer number of yeast cells should cause the average displacement of the yeast due to those factors as a whole to be zero, and therefore gravity would take over (anyone?).

Note: Please equate awake with active and asleep with "non active" if you are a purest, I accept any "looseness" of terminology criticism.

An animation of the basics of Brownian motion, although the yellow dot should be farting CO2 and pissing alcohol.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _large.gif

Bundaboy wrote:

Mattq71 wrote:I generally have good success using McKenzies Gelatine powder from IGA for about $2.50 for a jar that will last for ages.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/ho ... latin.html

Cold crashing works well though if you have an appropriate fridge/freezer setup.

Coincidently I was looking for some gelatine for my last batch but couldn't find any, I hadn't tried IGA.

Do you use it at room temperature or chilled as in the article you linked to?

Either has been fine for me, but I mostly use it at room temperature.

http://www.google.com.au/shopping/produ ... gJy2fD_BwE

Mattq71 wrote:Either has been fine for me, but I mostly use it at room temperature.

Excellent, and now I know it exists I am finding it everywhere, the moral of the story is never ask advice from someone younger than yourself.

Here is a diagram of what you could expect from the distribution of yeast cells for any given temperature, the distribution will always be greater in the lower region due to gravity, but the higher the temperature (energy) the greater the number of yeast cells there will be in the upper region. This is, of course, what we do see, but it also means that there will be a limit to "clarity" dependent on temperature rather than time unless some "fining" agent is introduced, which, of course, means that particulates of greater mass than the yeast cells "drag" the yeast to the bottom.

It also means, however, that if the cycle of temperature differentiation falls low enough over any period of time, that the wash will clarify naturally as the yeast cells will "clump" at the bottom. This explains why Ted, who lives in a cooler climate, may experience better clarification with time than I do. It may also explain why people who live in warmer climes BUT use air conditioning, may also experience greater clarification.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... amboge.jpg

I have found a good stir with a paddle and then a whiz with the paintstirrer to degas the wash after fermentation is complete ,wash's seem ta clear quicker that way after CO2 has been removed and there is no bubbling,as this will keep yeast and trub in suspension too,and yes too chilling after fermentation to speed clearing and keeping bad bugs at bay.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

hillzabilly wrote:I have found a good stir with a paddle and then a whiz with the paintstirrer to degas the wash after fermentation is complete ,wash's seem ta clear quicker that way after CO2 has been removed and there is no bubbling,as this will keep yeast and trub in suspension too,and yes too chilling after fermentation to speed clearing and keeping bad bugs at bay.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Yes, I should have mentioned the presence of CO2 in wash after fermentation but in my case I always rack off into four fermenting barrels and degas during that process, however, who is to say that there isn't still some residual CO2 even after that, it's a difficult thing to measure, but as far as I can ascertain the wash is "flat" as I always use an airlock after racking and see no evidence of gassing.

I should also mention that in my "sample experiments" the sediment "appears" to be all yeast (again that's a difficult thing to determine exactly but there doesn't seem to be any layering which I believe is indicative of the difference between yeast and trub?).