Cost effectiveness of distilling...

[Professor Green]

I know it's not rum or whisky but my last neutral run was a bran based recipe using around $50 of ingredients for a 230 litre wash.
The final yield after harsh cuts was approx. 7.5 litres @ 92.5%.
That's roughly 17 litres of vodka @40% or around 2 dozen bottles.
Ignoring running costs, that's a little over $2.00 per bottle of premium vodka.

Just remember though, you should be aiming for quality over quantity and even an expensive wash is probably going end up with a cheaper yet better product than if you went out and bought it off the shelf.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

[Doubleuj]

I know it's not rum or whisky but my last neutral run was a bran based recipe using around $50 of ingredients for a 230 litre wash.
The final yield after harsh cuts was approx. 7.5 litres @ 92.5%.
That's roughly 17 litres of vodka @40% or around 2 dozen bottles.
Ignoring running costs, that's a little over $2.00 per bottle of premium vodka.

Just remember though, you should be aiming for quality over quantity and even an expensive wash is probably going end up with a cheaper yet better product than if you went out and bought it off the shelf.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

:text-imwithstupid: :romance-kisscheek:
I’m with the prof, certain I worked out years ago that a tpw neutral cost me around $2 a bottle included water and power etc after cuts on a t500.
It’s a cheap hobby once you get away from hbs ingredients.
Which means aiming for quality over quantity doesn’t cost the earth.

[Plumby]

I know it's not rum or whisky but my last neutral run was a bran based recipe using around $50 of ingredients for a 230 litre wash.
The final yield after harsh cuts was approx. 7.5 litres @ 92.5%.
That's roughly 17 litres of vodka @40% or around 2 dozen bottles.
Ignoring running costs, that's a little over $2.00 per bottle of premium vodka.

Just remember though, you should be aiming for quality over quantity and even an expensive wash is probably going end up with a cheaper yet better product than if you went out and bought it off the shelf.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

:text-imwithstupid: :romance-kisscheek:
I’m with the prof, certain I worked out years ago that a tpw neutral cost me around $2 a bottle included water and power etc after cuts on a t500.
It’s a cheap hobby once you get away from hbs ingredients.
Which means aiming for quality over quantity doesn’t cost the earth.

:text-+1:
Even when I ran my old super reflux still my tpw cost me just over $2 a bottle to make and that was after a strip run in the pot still then a spirit run in the reflux still.

[wynnum1]

If you could buy your sugar at the world sugar price would be half that someone is making a good profit and do not think its the farmers.

[thedapperbenz]

thanks fellas. There's some good feedback there. Obviously being a noob I've been pricing my ingredients from online brew stores, etc.. so I'm sure I could cut costs down a fair bit.

The key point that I've seen made a few times is that it's possible to produce a product as good as store bought, for less cost. My worry is that I'd spend the money getting setup, then not like anything I'd produced and wished I'd just bought a dozen bottles of JD instead.

Obviously I don't expect to hit the ground running, but after a couple of runs it would be nice to be able to drink your own product and not have to lie to yourself about its quality.

I'm thinking I'd go a 50L keg boiler, 2" pot still with a shotty condenser (keep water costs down from increased efficiency), then maybe a 60L fermenting kit which should give me 40-45 litres of usable wash to run through the still. If I'm making rum, I'd need the head room in the fermenter and also the boiler to avoid puking, so I'm thinking 40L (80% boiler volume) should be right on the money. If I can pickup the skills to give me 4L of drinkable (and enjoyable!) product, for about $70 a run (incl wash, distillation costs, ageing costs, etc), then I'd be happy with the investment/effort required.

[Lowie]

What no-one here is yet to mention about the beauty of this hobby is...No hangovers (or at the least minor) compared to shop bought stuff if you master your cuts. In fact you don't even need to master your cuts when you get started; simply ditch out (save for a feints run) more of your first and last jars - who cares, costs bugger all to make. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[thedapperbenz]

ok, so after some more reading it looks like costs are actually a little higher than first estimate, as most recipes for rum or whiskey call for 4 or 5 generations.

So taking Rum for example, each gen costs around $25ish (6kg raw sugar, 6kg molasses, bakers yeast). Storing the low wines, then adding some of the dunder back to the fermenter and starting again x 3, Total for the 4 washes = $100ish (+/-15%) plus around 4 hours to strip on a basic pot still (1hr to start catching the foreshots, then 3hrs to strip the rest) x4 = 16 hours. Then add a spirit run @ approx 7-8 hours and the total cost is about $100 + 24 hours plus electricity and water for that period ($27+/-). End product should then be around 4L (+/- 10%) + ageing/flavouring costs. Add in the time to wash equipment, setup each ferment, etc and over the 4 ferments/runs it would probably work out to another 2 hours.
This equates to roughly $31.75+ 5.2 hours per/litre. Given a bottle of Kraken is about $50 for 700ml ($71 p/l) doing a comparison and assuming the home made product is as good (or better) than the store bought, you're essentially working for a rate of $7.54 p/hour (16yo's at maccas are on $16.97 p/h to flip burgers....)

[Doubleuj]

Might not be the hobby for you then

[bluc]

:text-+1: sounds like your trying talk yourself out of it. Things like storage you only buy once. You dont have to to gens. And filling the boiler with low wines is just the most effecient way of doing things. Rather than heating up to make 2l you make 10l... :-B

[woodduck]

Might not be the hobby for you then

:text-+1: I think your better off finding something different.
I don't want to convince you to do it and then have you hate it and think we're a bunch off nuts that talked you in to going broke :laughing-rolling: .Your forgetting this is a hobby not a business. I don't count my time as I enjoy the craft. Don't still just to save money, you won't be in it long if you do.

[thedapperbenz]

Thanks fellas. Just trying to be sensible about this one, given I’ve blown near 100k+ in 2 years on the cars.. then there’s snowboarding, shooting, bikes, etc etc and each time I load up on the best gear I can find, then end up using it twice a year. I’m being overly analytical regarding distillation as I know there will be more stuff to buy, additional costs etc.. but probably more than anything, the cost of time. Whilst it’s a hobby and it would be enjoyable, sometimes it’s damn hard to find time to yourself with a 2yo (and another due in August), so I’m trying to get a really good understanding of what’s involved before jumping in.

Unlike some of my other interests, I can do this at home.. so that’s easier. Plus it does have the potential to actually save me some money (whereas the others only offer enjoyment but no financial benefit)..

I’m basically running through the finer details to convince myself, as it’s something I’d like to get into... but want to make sure it’s worth it (from both an enjoyment and cost factor)

[Plumby]

:text-+1:
I make rum and whiskey in 200 litre batches costs about $60 for rum and around $50 for whiskey to fill my fermenter. Do the strip runs then a spirit run when I have enough low wines. I use a 1000 litre ibc with a submersible pump to cool the still so I'm only paying for power and I haven't noticed a rise in power bills since I started stilling.
At the end of the day its called a hobby for a reason,have you worked how much you work for per hour when you are restoring a car after you sell it?

[thedapperbenz]

...have you worked how much you work for per hour when you are restoring a car after you sell it?

I have.. and I’ve spent nearly every Saturday (7am-6pm) plus half day Sunday in the garage for about 2.5 years. The cost of time is insane. Whilst I’m lucky in that I’ve made a packet on one of the cars in terms of appreciation in value, I did start it right when my first son was born... so it didn’t make me too popular with the Mrs given I work long hours, then spend 2/3 of the weekend in the garage. I’ve finished he resto’s now, but expecting another bub in August I don’t really want to get into something that will chew all my time. This doesn’t really sound like it will (can do the stripping runs mid week when I work from home for a day, then pick a weekend to do the spirit run), so that’s already put me ahead of where I was with the cars.

[Plumby]

I work from 5:30 am and finish at 4pm by the time I get home its around 4:30pm, if I have a fermenter ready to go I fill up the boiler and try to get it fired up by 6:30pm, that way I'm finished by 10:30pm. Then when I'm ready to do a spirit run I fill the boiler Friday arvo and start around 6am Saturday morning that way I'm finished by 3pm normally, depending on abv of boiler charge it may be sooner or a bit later.
You will find a system that works for you, if you have the coin available get a bubbler off 5star, much quicker than a pot still. If you want to keep the costs down either buy a pot still from 5star or build your own, I built mine cost less than $200 and you don't need anything fancy for a keg boiler. I have a element in mine and that's it no bells an whistles.

[scythe]

There is something screwy with your maths tho mate.
$25 a wash, 6kg sugar 6kg molasses means roughly 10kg of sugar in that wash, how many litres or water you planning to add to that?
Good rule of thumb is 1:5 (1kg sugar : 5L water).
So running with that ratio that would give you a 50L wash, which will give you 5L of "100%" if it finished fermenting at 10%ABV.

From each 50L wash you can expect to keep about 2.5L maybe 3L of "100%".
Times that by 4 or 5 to give you 4 or 5 generations.
So looking at 10-15L of "100%".

100% is a chemical impossibility, 95.6%ABV is the max you will ever get from a still, and never from a pot still, probably max out at 80%ABV on a spirit run full of low wines,
So increace the aforementioned volumes accordingly.

So the 10-15L of "100%" becomes 20-30L of 50%ABV

Not bad for $100. Plus time and running cost.

[thedapperbenz]

There is something screwy with your maths tho mate.
$25 a wash, 6kg sugar 6kg molasses means roughly 10kg of sugar in that wash, how many litres or water you planning to add to that?
Good rule of thumb is 1:5 (1kg sugar : 5L water).
So running with that ratio that would give you a 50L wash, which will give you 5L of "100%" if it finished fermenting at 10%ABV.

From each 50L wash you can expect to keep about 2.5L maybe 3L of "100%".
Times that by 4 or 5 to give you 4 or 5 generations.
So looking at 10-15L of "100%".

100% is a chemical impossibility, 95.6%ABV is the max you will ever get from a still, and never from a pot still, probably max out at 80%ABV on a spirit run full of low wines,
So increace the aforementioned volumes accordingly.

So the 10-15L of "100%" becomes 20-30L of 50%ABV

Not bad for $100. Plus time and running cost.

Yep, that’s more like it and is actually pretty damn good. I’ve made an error with my calcs on the output of the low wines. My assumptions were that I’d pull 10% of the final run and it would give me an average of 40% being a pot still. Obviously way off when I look at your numbers.

[scythe]

50L @10%
25L @20%
12.5L @40%
Maximum.
More like 10L low wines per wash.
But in general most people stop distilling once the output drops to 20% because it is not worth the extra time and power to get the last bit of tails out.

[Lowie]

Sounds like Dan's might be your best bet mate....
BTW - can anyone name a good hobby that costs fuck all?

[thedapperbenz]

Sounds like Dan's might be your best bet mate....
BTW - can anyone name a good hobby that costs fuck all?

Could well be.. for $2300 per annum I get to pick what I want each week (guaranteed to be good) and time cost is zero, hence why I’m weighing this one up before I dive in. Already have a few big boys hobbies that cost me a small fortune, I’ve probably spent 120k in the last 2 years on hobbies alone, gets hard to justify on a single income with a wife, kid, another on the way plus a few properties to cover. Luckily one of them worked in my favour and value wise has covered itself more than twice over, allowing me to register the outputs as assets and help to buy some more investment properties. The others not so much (4wd-ing and shooting namely). I’m not looking for another hobby to make me thousands, just something that provides a reasonable reward to justify the effort + expense...

[Lowie]

:)) There's your first mistake mate "guaranteed to be good". You only think it's good because that's all you've ever drank, or you've drank some crap home hooch that's been made by people that rely on commercial home brew shop advice. Personally, I no longer buy commercial spirits (or beer for that fact) as it's not that good - that's how craft beer has gown so rapidly. BTW, I reckon some of your assumptions are a bi ton the high side too.