What does second stripping run do

[deerndingo]

Hi,
I have a T500. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are numerous posts that advise that running the alcohol of the first stripping run through again at 40%ABV gets rid of "bad things" and removes the need for carbon filtering.

What bad things does this second run remove?

I also note the on a second run I get less out than I put in. That sucks!

Thank you in advance for your answers.

[EziTasting]

Gudday Dingo,
I don’t nor have I ever run a T500; that said it’s a good learning rig (so I’ve been told)...
The second run after a stripping run is called a spirit run and this is, in conjunction with doing ‘cuts’ is where you make good/better/great spirits!
Yes, you will have less but it’ll be better than most shop bought spirits. An, to be honest, volume is only important when you start! Afterwards you’ll have plenty....

Make sure you use the recipes here (NOT the stuff at your local HBS) and it wont matter so much that you’re getting less volume because it IS that much better AND cheaper!

After all these years I am still mostly in the Newbies section because that is where the rubber meets the road! Keep at it, you’ll be amazed at what you can produce!

[deerndingo]

So in a reflex still why don't I just do the cuts on the first run and be done with it. Take the cooling temp to where its just starting to run and hold it there to suck up all the bad juice. then move up another 5C until it stops and then move to 50C for the ethanol. ???

[The Stig]

I don't exactly know the science but I do know when I was running a T500 the biggest improvement in product quality came from double distilling or simply put, doing a stripping run then a spirit run.
Theres an old saying that comes to mind, shit in shit out .
Cheers

[the Doctor]

I would never distil without first stripping ...for so many reasons, the first is so I can raise the ABV to 40, the most efficient ABV for the spirit run. To eliminate the grossest parts of the wash and to quickly bring the spirit to a level of quality worthy of spending hours polishing it in our spirit still... we strip fast, but we run our spirit slow.
Doc

[Professor Green]

Hi,
I have a T500. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are numerous posts that advise that running the alcohol of the first stripping run through again at 40%ABV gets rid of "bad things" and removes the need for carbon filtering.

What bad things does this second run remove?

I also note the on a second run I get less out than I put in. That sucks!

Thank you in advance for your answers.

The fermentation process produces ethanol and a bunch of other chemical compounds some of which are not desirable in your final product; methanol for example. The stripping run quickly removes some of the more undesirable compounds giving the spirit run a cleaner base on which to operate. It also means the spirit run is starting at a higher ABV making the run more efficient as Doc mentioned.

There are always going to be losses each distillation as you can never extract all of the ethanol from the charge. You concentrate on quality not quantity. The washes we use at hobby level are cheap enough so you’re not really losing that much.

[RC Al]

After you strip and do the spirit run (with cuts!), have a smell & taste of the dunder each time, its usually pretty manky, so thereby with each distillation, your drinking way less of that stuff (the other 5 odd % of your output if your hitting 95%)

If you have a tall enough still with the equivalent of 15+ plates*, you can do one run and done for neutral, but again, it will not be as pure as if you had stripped before hand

To really cut down on flavours, you can do a second strip, watering down to 5-10%. This adds a lot of time to the process though for what many would argue is negligible gain - another is to do a second spirit run of just the hearts from the first. Your starting to get into whats called "snowflake" vodka then, absolutely flavourless

Each of the different compounds like to hang out with their friends, so with a 40% concentration (or a much bigger boiler than we can discuss) more of the same thing will boil off at the same time, concentrating them and making the cuts easier - also why some people will add heads n tails back into a wash

*eg A 4" 4 plate bubbler with a 800mm packed section - boiler - 1 plate, 4 for the actual plates, 10ish for the packed section and any more has to be provided by reflux - at the cost of speed

posted same time as Prof

[Amberale]

Hi,
I have a T500. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are numerous posts that advise that running the alcohol of the first stripping run through again at 40%ABV gets rid of "bad things" and removes the need for carbon filtering.

What bad things does this second run remove?

I also note the on a second run I get less out than I put in. That sucks!

Thank you in advance for your answers.

The fermentation process produces ethanol and a bunch of other chemical compounds some of which are not desirable in your final product; methanol for example. The stripping run quickly removes some of the more undesirable compounds giving the spirit run a cleaner base on which to operate. It also means the spirit run is starting at a higher ABV making the run more efficient as Doc mentioned.

There are always going to be losses each distillation as you can never extract all of the ethanol from the charge. You concentrate on quality not quantity. The washes we use at hobby level are cheap enough so you’re not really losing that much.

Proff, is there any problem doing stripping runs with a Neutraliser fully stacked?(5plates and a packed section)
It’s just a PITA to pull down and put back up for a final run.
I’ve got a bit of time coming up and a few of freddies vodka wash ready to go.

[Professor Green]

Kind of defeats the purpose but I can’t see that there would be any problem doing that. It is still double distilling.

[db1979]

I think it'll affect the spirit run a little bit, depending on how far into tails you strip. If you stop stripping pretty early into tails then the packed section won't be loaded with much tails and won't take long for the packed section to be cleaned by the foreshots and heads. If you strip it right down to say 20 % abv then it'll need to be refluxed for longer to get the column nice and clean. But having said this, I doubt it'll take anywhere near as long as pulling the column down and then back up again. It'll cost more in electricity (or gas depending on which one you run), but not much more, and I guess your packing might need to be replaced earlier. I don't bother stripping my FFV now that I have a packed section, I just stop as soon as the first slight hint of tails comes through (usually when my top two plates die down in activity and the bottom two plates have lost their bath) so I know my packed section has only been exposed to a small amount of tails.

I'm guessing you're stripping multiple boiler charges though so you can do 1 larger spirit run at 40%? If this is the case then I would go ahead and do what you're planning.

[The Stig]

I would at the very least remove the packed section to do stripping runs

[Amberale]

I’m probably talking more about double distilling rather than stripping.
I was just going to do normal runs and then re distill the hearts after doin rough cuts.

DB, I usually stop collecting shortly after my ABV drops below 80%.
This happens fairly quickly then the abv plummets and I don’t get very much product after that.
So far I have always put her into full reflux for 45 minutes before starting to take off, even when I removed the packed section and one plate.

Yes I’m looking at a 40% run.
Only problem is time, 40-45 litres 40% at 2.1 litres per hour output is a big day in the shed.
Is a half full milk can at 40% better than a fuller can at 20%? (Ok one will use more dead dinosaurs to heat up).

Stig : Is that removing the packed section a recommendation for faster stripping or to save the copper packing?

Thanks folks and sorry about the thread steal.

[The Stig]

Stig : Is that removing the packed section a recommendation for faster stripping or to save the copper packing.

Both, as alluded to your just holding so much alcohol in the copper .
But if your looking to double distilk only the hearts of a few runs that's a different story.
Most find that stripping then a nice slow spirit run us good enough

[Amberale]

Stig : Is that removing the packed section a recommendation for faster stripping or to save the copper packing.

Both, as alluded to your just holding so much alcohol in the copper .
But if your looking to double distilk only the hearts of a few runs that's a different story.
Most find that stripping then a nice slow spirit run us good enough

:handgestures-thumbupleft:
I’m on the wagon for a while and its a chance to build up some extra nice supplies and experiment.
Thanks again.