First Run Planning - Objective: High Qauality & % Neutral

[rvn]

Hi All,

I'm set up with a 2" Boka & 2" Pot both from FSD and have only done the sacrificial run through the Boka (so a total noob).

I was a little rough / vague with my sacrificial but I noticed the high % is what I'm essentially wanting to discard? (fores?) and it's downhill %, uphill temp from there...

My first objective coming into this is to produce a high%, clean neutral to replace the Polish (95%) stuff I'm buying 70$ @500ml. (secondary will be to make some Gin etc)

So my question is, how do go about getting the good quality*, "high%" neutral? (obviously not by going straight through the reflux like the sac. run...)

*I'm not going to be too pedantic about how "smooth" this is to begin with as it won't be consumed in large doses but it does have to be fit for human consumption at small levels.

Am I best looking doing a "stripping run" (through the pot?) and then running that (diluted to 40%) through the reflux (spirit run)? Would this mean the % is automatically going to be coming out higher of the reflux (spirit run) higher?

Would this be a good guide: http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7304&start=40#p142450 ?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers

[Carol]

Hi rvn
I think I have posted a description of my spirit run in the FSD Boka thread. ( I have the FSD 2" pot and boka).

I have 3 x 25 litre fermenters currently doing Teddys Fast Fermenting Vodka.
I run each wash through the pot still ( only one copper roll in the column) on full power down to about 20%. This takes me around 2 hours for each run.
The low wines average about 40%. I put the three batches in the boiler (with diluted tails from a previous spirit run). I wrap the boiler in a foil car sunshade or a blanket. Then I do the spirit run with the boka ( all of the copper rolls in the column).
I use the power controller to keep temp at 78-ish degrees. The fores go into a jar for cleaning. I take cuts at 250 - 300ml using couple of measuring jugs. The spirit is decanted into numbered jars and aired. I run it pretty slowly and it takes about 7 hours.
Next day I do my cuts. The hearts seem very clean with a very faint wheaty taste. The heads will go back into a feints run later and the tails will go in the next spirit run. ABV off the still says 95% not corrected for temperature so a bit lower than that.
I am using a 350w submersible pump in my swimming pool.
The first run is a bit scary but you get used to the still pretty quickly.

Happy to answer specific questions if I can.

Cheers
Carol

[Carol]

Noticed I was not very clear about fermenters - they are 30 litres and I do a 25 litre wash in them.

[rvn]

Hi rvn
I think I have posted a description of my spirit run in the FSD Boka thread. ( I have the FSD 2" pot and boka).

I have 3 x 25 litre fermenters currently doing Teddys Fast Fermenting Vodka.
I run each wash through the pot still ( only one copper roll in the column) on full power down to about 20%. This takes me around 2 hours for each run.
The low wines average about 40%. I put the three batches in the boiler (with diluted tails from a previous spirit run). I wrap the boiler in a foil car sunshade or a blanket. Then I do the spirit run with the boka ( all of the copper rolls in the column).
I use the power controller to keep temp at 78-ish degrees. The fores go into a jar for cleaning. I take cuts at 250 - 300ml using couple of measuring jugs. The spirit is decanted into numbered jars and aired. I run it pretty slowly and it takes about 7 hours.
Next day I do my cuts. The hearts seem very clean with a very faint wheaty taste. The heads will go back into a feints run later and the tails will go in the next spirit run. ABV off the still says 95% not corrected for temperature so a bit lower than that.
I am using a 350w submersible pump in my swimming pool.
The first run is a bit scary but you get used to the still pretty quickly.

Happy to answer specific questions if I can.

Cheers
Carol

Hi Carol, thanks for jumping in again :)

I think you mean this post: http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?p=221168#p221168 (I do recall this one now actually).

If i can break this all down into smaller chunks I guess my questions (confusion) is:

In 2" Boka post you are using your Boka (reflux) first (strip?) then your POT (spirit). The thread I link to above (and where I thought I was going) is the other way round? (above in this thread I think you are saying you use the pot first also?).

Next day I do my cuts.

(so this is a third run and is through the pot? - I'd love some more detail on this?)

The heads will go back into a feints run later and the tails will go in the next spirit run

(i don't really have any "tails" for this run - is that an issue?) I'd be interested in knowing more about the feints run too :)

EDIT: FYI I'll only be doing a single 25L TPW for this one (just to give u an idea of scale)

Thanks for your help - I'm happy for this to be a test run but hoping I can firm up my steps clearly in advance if possible!

Cheers

[Carol]

When I started the first thread about my boka I may not have had the pot still. I bought the boka first and later got the extra components for the pot after playing about for a bit. It would have made more sense to get them all together but I did not know very much about what I was doing then.

I run each of the three washes through the pot still and save the low wines (average 40% ABV). ( 3 stripping runs to charge my boiler for a spirit run)

I run the low wines through the boka and save the distillate in measuring jugs and then decant to vegemite jars. ( 1 spirit run).

I air the jars and the the next day smell them and/or taste them and decide what is heads, what is hearts and what is tails. In the newbies corner there is a good article about making cuts.

Heads get saved for a special run all of their own when I get enough. Tails get saved for the next spirit run ( at least for now I might do something else later) and the hearts are kept to drink/use. They go in recycled spirit bottles with a note to say where they came in the run. So the note might say jars 9to 11/22. I know these were close to the middle of the run.

So if you have one fermenter of TPW wash ready to go I would do a stripping run in the pot still. (One copper roll in the column and full power). That will give you the first batch of low wines. Mine takes about 50 minutes to get to temperature and then it is steady stream of maybe 700 ml every 15 minutes for the next 75 minutes or so. I keep it running until ABV is 20%. I don't do any cuts (eg foreshots) on this run.

Apparently resdistilling the heads can lead to some interesting results. I get about 1 litre or so of heads from my spirit run so it will take me a while to get enough together to do a spirit run with these.

I have three fermenters now as I find it easier to do a production line of three washes, ready to strip and then do a spirit run.

I have only done FFV in the pot and boka so far. I had a TPW wash ready but knocked it off the table and it went all over the floor!! I have done TPW in my air still ( before I knew that was not a good idea!)

Hope this makes more sense. Ask more questions if I am not being clear enough.

[rvn]

When I started the first thread about my boka I may not have had the pot still. I bought the boka first and later got the extra components for the pot after playing about for a bit. It would have made more sense to get them all together but I did not know very much about what I was doing then.

I run each of the three washes through the pot still and save the low wines (average 40% ABV). ( 3 stripping runs to charge my boiler for a spirit run)

I run the low wines through the boka and save the distillate in measuring jugs and then decant to vegemite jars. ( 1 spirit run).

I air the jars and the the next day smell them and/or taste them and decide what is heads, what is hearts and what is tails. In the newbies corner there is a good article about making cuts.

Heads get saved for a special run all of their own when I get enough. Tails get saved for the next spirit run ( at least for now I might do something else later) and the hearts are kept to drink/use. They go in recycled spirit bottles with a note to say where they came in the run. So the note might say jars 9to 11/22. I know these were close to the middle of the run.

So if you have one fermenter of TPW wash ready to go I would do a stripping run in the pot still. (One copper roll in the column and full power). That will give you the first batch of low wines. Mine takes about 50 minutes to get to temperature and then it is steady stream of maybe 700 ml every 15 minutes for the next 75 minutes or so. I keep it running until ABV is 20%. I don't do any cuts (eg foreshots) on this run.

Apparently resdistilling the heads can lead to some interesting results. I get about 1 litre or so of heads from my spirit run so it will take me a while to get enough together to do a spirit run with these.

I have three fermenters now as I find it easier to do a production line of three washes, ready to strip and then do a spirit run.

I have only done FFV in the pot and boka so far. I had a TPW wash ready but knocked it off the table and it went all over the floor!! I have done TPW in my air still ( before I knew that was not a good idea!)

Hope this makes more sense. Ask more questions if I am not being clear enough.

This is great, thanks Carol.

So I don't discard anything from the stripping run? And since I reckon I'll be getting similar results to you (based on us having identical equipment at least) how much of your spirit run (each 25) do you put aside as fores? (400ml too much or are you more scientific than that?)

I know i've read most of this information around in disparate threads so it's all a bit of mashup in my brain right now. You are big help in tying it altogether, thanks!

[Carol]

I don;t discard anything from the stripping run but there may be some people who prefer to.

For the spirit run, I have two 500 ml measuring jugs from Kmart that I swap over - the 300ml line is more like 250ml really but fine for what I need. My spirit run is probably less than 25 litres - depends what I have got from the stripping runs - so it might be 20 litres or so. I take the first 250-300 ml as definite foreshots. It has a distinctive smell. I can check the distillate as it comes into the jug so I might do 150 ml and 150 ml (or even smaller amounts) rather than 300 ml for the next bit and save them in separate jars so I can add extra foreshots to my cleaning jar if I think it is warranted. I have lots and lots of vegemite jars so I can easily do smaller lots if I want to.

I have only done three spirit runs so far (all FFV) but am getting better at identifying the different smells during the run. At first they all just smelt like high proof ethanol!!

I have 3 more FFV washes ready to strip - and then will put three more washes in the fermenters. I may do TPW this time.

[rvn]

At first they all just smelt like high proof ethanol

That'll do nicely for what I need this for :)

Excellent, thanks so much for the help. I'll let you know how I go!

Cheers

[Carol]

You want the "not so smelly" high proof ethanol if you are looking for a nice vodka! LOL!
Let me know how the first stripping run goes.

Cheers
Carol

[rvn]

You want the "not so smelly" high proof ethanol if you are looking for a nice vodka! LOL!
Let me know how the first stripping run goes.

Cheers
Carol

Roger that re the vodka. This if for extremely low-dose "tincture" so believe me the more subtle tastes really won't matter (within reason of course).

I'm now looking at the 2" Pot properly for the first time - I'd paid no attention to it thinking i'd only be using for my "Gin" style runs down the track.

Are the threaded housings on the column just for circulating the water through?

If I'm guessing correctly, to get it to look like the pics on the website https://www.5stardistilling.com.au/product/2-pot-still/ I'll be using the same column as the boka (with a single copper packing roll as per your advice for this exercise) attached to the boiler, connect top to the 2 elbow bends, pot condenser, mouthpiece/reducer. Seem right?

Guess this means I'm doing a second cleaning run - should be another good learner then.

Thanks again

[Andrew]

Are the threaded housings on the column just for circulating the water through?

If you mean the condenser then correct, you will need to go to Bunnings for a couple of adapters. Remember, water in at the bottom and out at the top.

same column as the boka (with a single copper packing roll as per your advice for this exercise) attached to the boiler, connect top to the 2 elbow bends, pot condenser, mouthpiece/reducer. Seem right?

Correct again, but dont use the copper for stripping runs its just going to get messed up.

[rvn]

Are the threaded housings on the column just for circulating the water through?

If you mean the condenser then correct, you will need to go to Bunnings for a couple of adapters. Remember, water in at the bottom and out at the top.

same column as the boka (with a single copper packing roll as per your advice for this exercise) attached to the boiler, connect top to the 2 elbow bends, pot condenser, mouthpiece/reducer. Seem right?

Correct again, but dont use the copper for stripping runs its just going to get messed up.

Thanks Andrew. I was just going to post this for Carol to assist my description - I'll put it here for future reference:



Many thanks to you both.

[Carol]

Hi Andrew
I have been using one copper roll in stripping runs and cleaning it up after in a bowl with a little citric acid. Have I got that wrong and it is only one copper roll if I am running a spirit run in the pot still?

Cheers
Carol

[Andrew]

I wouldn’t be using any of the copper for stripping runs but if you don’t mind cleaning it, it won’t hurt
But yes for a pot still spirit run your going to use 1 or 2 of the small rolls
For the full Boka spirit run you’ll want the entire upright full and the extras around the coil

[rvn]

So I'm back with the results of my first "proper" run and interested in any feedback :)

Using a 25 Ltr TPW and following Carol's advice I started with a stripping using my POT to get ~7 Ltrs of low wines 40%.

I then (following Kiwi's VM Operation as a guide: http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2860) ran that 7 Ltr through the Boka as per the following :



At this point there was about 3 Ltr's of wash left in the boiler and <=20% trickling out so I stopped the process. In future, I'll definitely make 3 washes and work with the higher volumes.

You can see I started to vague out a bit at cut #6. I actually over-collected #5 (too much for the jar) so included 100ml from 5 into 6. (so 6 is a blend). Even still, I'm confused about how it got to 80% without me seeming to notice the temperature drop (I didn't record a change i temp until 7). The abv readings are taken after the fact (from the jars) so surprised to see that had dropped without me noticing a temp fluctuation?? (I may have just "vagued out" by this point but I was surprised by this)

As a learning exercise, I intend to do the process of diluting & tasting / smelling to familiarise myself however, I'm guessing that my "hearts" are somewhere between cut 2 & 5 (with some of at least 2 likely "heads"). Does this sound right?

Could I technically simply combine say jars 2-5 "safely" enough? I'm happy for this run to be far from perfect, as long as it is safe for human consumption (albeit in very small doses - say 30ml at at time at most)

Interested in all your feedback / criticism etc so thanks in advance for any time you give this.

Cheers

[db1979]

Like you said, dilute and taste, smell and repeat if necessary. Even walk away from it and come back later. Heck, if you're really struggling to tell the difference put some alfoil over each jar and come back again the next day and try again. Your sense of smell learns over a few attempts and if there's good product to be had there it's worth being patient for.

[db1979]

If I was to guess purely off your data I would say hearts is jar 3 to 5, but you don't know if hearts starts in the latter parts of jar 2 or early in jar 3. If it's the second option then jar 3 is no good. Doing smaller cuts particularly when you expect to have a transition between heads and hearts is a good idea. It means you maximise your hearts cut.

If jar 3 contains some heads just add it to your next spirit run.

[rvn]

If I was to guess purely off your data I would say hearts is jar 3 to 5, but you don't know if hearts starts in the latter parts of jar 2 or early in jar 3. If it's the second option then jar 3 is no good. Doing smaller cuts particularly when you expect to have a transition between heads and hearts is a good idea. It means you maximise your hearts cut.

If jar 3 contains some heads just add it to your next spirit run.

Thanks for the advice db1979, much appreciated - will take it on board. cheers