All things Mash

[B-Man]

I've done a lot more still runs than making mash so very new mash wise and have a few questions about the mash and generations etc.

1. Once it's finished fermenting do you have to rack it off? or can you just use the yeast bed at the end after you have emptied the fermenter weeks/months later?

2. Do I need the yeast bed/remaining corn,grains etc for generation or just the strained backset from the still? to be able to make a generation?

3. how long would the yeast be usable if you wanted to reuse the yeast from the previous generation? if it sat for 1 month to clear then I made another mix and chucked some yeast bed in when it hit 30°

4. Can I freeze backset if its going to be a while before I use it again? or just seal it in a container with no oxygen...?

5. If doing allgrain do I need malted barley or alpha amylase?


Is there anything else I should know?

[BigRig]

1. You don't need to rack it off. Just let it settle for a bit and draw it off the top. If you want to use the same bed weeks or months later you are better off filling the fermenters again and giving the yeast something to do. The co2 will keep the nasties away

2. Just the backset to make generations. Generally there will be nothing left of the grain unless you are doing a bwko sugarhead and only using the grain for flavour.

3. That will work but yeast is cheap

4. Yeah you are better off freezing if you want to come back later and use, If you leave it sealed it might work or it might get infected.

5. If you used malted grain you wont need the amylase. Get some angel yeast. It is so much easier.

[howard]

I've done a lot more still runs than making mash so very new mash wise and have a few questions about the mash and generations etc.

1. Once it's finished fermenting do you have to rack it off? or can you just use the yeast bed at the end after you have emptied the fermenter weeks/months later?
for me it depends whether i'm fermenting on-grain or off-grain
if i'm fermenting off-grain i just leave it to clear.
if fermenting on-grain i have to strain it.
with the yeast bed/trub, you can
a) chuck it
b) add more ingredients at the correct temp
c) add very hot liquid, kill the yeast and use it as nutrient.
2. Do I need the yeast bed/remaining corn,grains etc for generation or just the strained backset from the still? to be able to make a generation?
there are various methods using either/or.
there are different methods in the tried & proven section.
3. how long would the yeast be usable if you wanted to reuse the yeast from the previous generation? if it sat for 1 month to clear then I made another mix and chucked some yeast bed in when it hit 30°
most washes clear within 2 weeks for me, when the yeast has finished fermenting and cleaned up, it usually stays dormant in a wash until you add more food for it.
so i should be ok unless it's subject to extreme heat or too much alcohol.
4. Can I freeze backset if its going to be a while before I use it again? or just seal it in a container with no oxygen...?
i've heard of people freezing backset successfully.
i keep backset and dunder for several months in containers that are full to the brim (no oxygen) or i put a layer of Co2 if it's half full.
otherwise an infection will usually start (which sometimes i encourage) :smile:

5. If doing allgrain do I need malted barley or alpha amylase?
complicated subject & not easy to answer, and revolves around diastatic power.
in the beer brewing world, enzymes are not usually needed as they use mostly malted grains with high Diastatic Power (DP)
in the distilling world, we use grains that sometimes have little or no diastatic power (DP) like corn and unmalted grains.
Diastatic power is an indicator of the amount of enzymes available to convert starches into sugar.
if you don't have enough DP through lack of malted grains or alpha/beta enzymes, you will get poor conversion.
so if using a fair amount of malted barley (high DP) with corn (low DP), you would be ok, as there would be enough enzyme in the barley to convert the corn starch.
but, for instance, when geltinizing corn, i use a high temp alpha amalase enzyme about 88C to keep it like thin soup. then i would lower the temp to about 65C and hit it with malted barley or gluco enzyme (beta) to finish the conversion.
then there is things like yellow angel yeast.....
i'm afraid the subject is another rabbit hole :?








Is there anything else I should know?

[B-Man]

Thanks guys very helpful points me in the right direction.

I was going to do a UJSSM to start with while Learnt more about all grain but will use some yellow angel yeast sounds like it simplifies it a bit. and go from there.

[RuddyCrazy]

B-Man

Just heat up the strike water to 74C and chuck in the malted barely then wrap it up to keep the temp and about an hour later the iodine test shows a full conversion :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Now I did get that 74C strike water off a calc years ago to suit my setup and it just works every year. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Ferment on the grain and use backset to set a sour mash then scoop out the used grains and add 5 kg's of crushed

corn in there with enough inverted sugar to get the ferment to 1070 as that is a good target to aim for :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers Bryan

[B-Man]

Cheers Brian
lots to learn!

also one other question
With all my fruit from my fruit trees can I say create a 3kg mash of plums with the right amount of water, and then when I get more that have fallen off the tree, a bird has eaten half or it has got over ripe and starting to deteriorate could I just keep chucking them in with the correct ratio of water and keep the mash fermenting? or do you just freeze them until you have all of them ready to create a mash?

[RC Al]

Incremental additions are more than possible, but you run a higher chance of infection.

Freezing breaks up the fruit nicely at the cell level, so a bonus to help a good ferment.

[RuddyCrazy]

B-man,
Last Sunday SWMBO came upto my shed shed and asked when am I going get those plums :scared-eek: so a few hours later just over 8Kg's of plums were stewing :handgestures-thumbupleft: all that hard work done by SWMBO :dance: and when I did a brix reading 1048 or 11 brix was the sugar content. Now to get a wash out of that to run in my bubbler I inverted 6kg's of sugar and made it up to a 30-35 litre wash with a SG of 1075.

Checked the ferment yesterday and the airlock water was just about empty and the airlock was going like a machinegun :scared-eek: Checked the water level just now and just needed to add a bit but it is hammering away flatout :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Mate for fruit one can't go past EC1118 yeast as it just plain works and take a look back when the last group buy was and yes I still have some left which lives in the fridge :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers Bryan