Dry vs Liquid yeast?

[bourboncask]

Hi guys/gals. I'm new to this site, but not at distilling. Been doing it for 5 years now. But I've upgraded from a 1 gal Turbo 5000 to a 10 gal Blue Mountain still. Because of this, I have a question regarding yeast. I've always used dry yeast (turbo yeast 1.5 oz per 1 gal). The recipe I want to try with my new still calls fo 2 oz - 4 oz of yeast per 10 gal. Because the Turbo yeast I've been using is hard to get in my neck of the woods, I was told to turn the little packets I have of it into a "starter". Just wondering how much liquid yeast would equal the 2 oz - 4 oz of dry yeast? I far as making the starter, I was told to put a couple small yeast packets in a gal of sugar water and let it do it's thing. I'm not sure to do after that. Any advice regarding using liquid yeast would be appreciated. Thanks all,

Bourboncask

[bt1]

Howdy,

I'm no fan as many here of turbo yeasts. Even the best I tried years back had flavours in spirit after ageing I couldn't accept. In fact if that was all distilling was going to be I would have given up years back. k, that said ...

I'd strongly suggest looking at a high alco tolerant beer yeast that you can re gen so it will do many washes for just the cost of the initial outlay. If US based suggest A Windsor ale yeast, the most robust yeast I've seen or an American ale yeast. 10gal / 38lt is really only 1 packet!

Turbo packets generally contain all the yeast nutrients DAP etc to suit the pitching rate they specify.... it part of the hot fast game they play with your wallet. Making a limited nutrient starter (plain sugar ok for turbos but little else) which is just a yeast primer not a method to grow yeast volumes seems kinda pointless to me.

If you want to grow yeast volumes use a yeast bomb..a nutrient soup designed for the yeast's happiness....not a replication of the wash either. Most ale or high alco yeasts will multiply cell count many times in 24hours. It can be stored or regen'd from fermenter slops. If your looking to go down this path let me know and I'll write up the yeast bomb mtls and method.

bt1

[Dominator]

As above, there are far better yeasts than turbos. Yes they will take longer to ferment but I am happy to wait a week or two for a better product. With the right nutrients your can even use bakers yeast which is a whole lot cheaper than turbo yeast. Take a look in the tried and tested section of the recipes on this forum, there is a tomato paste wash, while it may not sound appetising, when made properly it will give you top quality neutral/vodka. Also, I would take bt1 up on his offer for advice, he has plenty of experience experimenting with different yeasts and methods of pitching.

p.s. Welcome to the forum mate, maybe drop into the welcome section and say hello. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[wynnum1]

Have a look at QV 43 lallemand yeast Ingredients for a large TPW wash? - Aussie Distiller

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=QV+4 ... &gws_rd=cr

[the Doctor]

Have a look at QV 43 lallemand yeast Ingredients for a large TPW wash? - Aussie Distiller

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=QV+4 ... &gws_rd=cr

The Lallemand name for the QV-43 is uvaferm 43...but its's strain is QV 43...so when you order from others it is QV 43 when from lallemand specify uva 43...it is for all intents and purposes the same strain of scharamyces cerivisiae bayanus...so don't let the name confuse you.
Doc

[bourboncask]

Bt1 I would be forever grateful if you would either post that yeast bomb. I've had my new still for 6 months know, and have yet to do my first run. 10 gal is a lot more intimidating than my 1 gal "set it and forget it" still. The yeast thing is the only thing holding me up at this point. Thanks again all of you for any advice. I'll have to look up those other beer yeasts and that tomato paste recipe. I read about it the other day on this site. Sounded a little weird. But hey, what ever works right??

[Dominator]

Don't be put off by the tomato paste. It is only there as a nutrient for the yeast. You can use other more traditional nutrients like DAP, but tomato paste is cheaper and more accessible. And that is what we are about, making distilling more accessible to the hobbyist.

[bourboncask]

Oh, I'm not put off by the tomato paste. I just never considered it in making shine before that's all.

I've got lots to learn, and lots of stuff to try. Like I stated earlier, I've been running a 1 gal still. My output was so little, and my time so short, that once I found a way to make shine from sugar water/turbo yeast I stuck to it and didn't deviate much. Another reason for just using sugar water and nothing else was I lived in the middle of town in a shared duplex. Not much room to store a large still or grain. I recently built a house in the middle of the woods, which is why I bought my 10 gal Blue Mountain. Plenty of room to store it and stay anonymous.

I'm going to give that tomato paste a try. My ultimate goal is to produce a smooth drinking Whisky/Bourbon. It's been hard to do with what I've had to work with so far, but hopfully with some good advice and encouragement, I'll get there. Thanks again guys.

[Dominator]

Oh, I'm not put off by the tomato paste. I just never considered it in making shine before that's all.

I've got lots to learn, and lots of stuff to try. Like I stated earlier, I've been running a 1 gal still. My output was so little, and my time so short, that once I found a way to make shine from sugar water/turbo yeast I stuck to it and didn't deviate much. Another reason for just using sugar water and nothing else was I lived in the middle of town in a shared duplex. Not much room to store a large still or grain. I recently built a house in the middle of the woods, which is why I bought my 10 gal Blue Mountain. Plenty of room to store it and stay anonymous.

I'm going to give that tomato paste a try. My ultimate goal is to produce a smooth drinking Whisky/Bourbon. It's been hard to do with what I've had to work with so far, but hopfully with some good advice and encouragement, I'll get there. Thanks again guys.

If you want a quality bourbon, have a look in the tried and proven section of the recipes. Mac has a bourbon whisky knock off there that is simple and by all reports, damn good.

[bourboncask]

Dominator, is this the recipe you speak of??

Here's a pretty simple recipe some members know I've been working on for quite some time, and after aging for 3 months it has turned out so nice it's definitely worth doing if you like to get away from the typical BKO or UJ taste, even if it is a little expensive.

This works fantastic as a single generation, I didnt bother doing follow up gens with backset and this gear tastes awesome pretty much straight from the still watered to drinking ABV, however on oak for a couple of months the sweetness, aroma and flavour is delish!! everyone who's tasted it has gone wow!!

For a 27 litre wash.

4 kg of sugar
1kg Ale or Pilsner malt
1 tin of caramalt liquid extract
20 grams bakers yeast is what I used
Small pinch epsom salts (may not really be required)

So basically just like any other wash you put down you can invert the sugar in boiling water with a tea spoon of citric acid, or not. I just melt the sugar in 10 litres of hot tap water and add to the grain bed, then stir in the LME, top up to 27 litres....

Pitch yeast once fermenter is below 30c

Put lid on and wait.

Once done I run it through a bubbler, if you use a pot still you might want to run very slowly or do the strip & spirit run. I dont pot still so ner!

That's pretty much it, a little more expensive than your typical wash, but oh man is it worth it.

The little we have aged is very closely guarded by Mrs Mac, she gets very edgy when I pull the shot glasses out for for the very lucky few we've shared this with.

Enjoy!

Cheers,

Mac.

[bourboncask]

Or are you refering to this one???

My fermenters are 30L so I'll just give you quantities for that, and I measure my grains by liters instead of weight. I use 2 fermenters so I get a full 50L charge for each stripping run, and if one futzes up I can use the other to keep generations going.

1st generation.

2L cracked corn
1L wheat
1L barley
3.5 KG sugar
1/4 tea spoon citric acid
1 crushed vitamin B tablet (not really needed but found it to make a more vigorous ferment)

I usually dump the lot into 20L boiling water to soften the grains and invert the sugar, leave it for a couple of hours, stir it up good and dump it in the fermenter then top up to 30L with cold water and add about a quarter cup of yeast.

It should ferment out in 3 or 4 days depending on ambient temps, and I leave it to clear for another 3 or 4 days, I strip it fast and collect everything except fore shots until it hits 20% ABV and dump the lot into my other keg, usually end up with about 8 or 9 liters of low wines from each 50L stripping run.

2nd generation onwards.

Add 10 to 12 liters of the hot slops back into a bucket, tip sugar in and leave it to invert until its cooled and chuck it back on lees from last ferment, top up to 30 Liters and it'll fire up in a couple of hours.

Keep stripping batches until you got the 4th or 5th generation in the spare keg,then do a slow n steady spirit run.

Oh yeh! and I take about a half liter of grains out of the fermenter and add the same amount of fresh grains back each time.

Makes a real good whiskey

[Dominator]

Or are you refering to this one???

My fermenters are 30L so I'll just give you quantities for that, and I measure my grains by liters instead of weight. I use 2 fermenters so I get a full 50L charge for each stripping run, and if one futzes up I can use the other to keep generations going.

1st generation.

2L cracked corn
1L wheat
1L barley
3.5 KG sugar
1/4 tea spoon citric acid
1 crushed vitamin B tablet (not really needed but found it to make a more vigorous ferment)

I usually dump the lot into 20L boiling water to soften the grains and invert the sugar, leave it for a couple of hours, stir it up good and dump it in the fermenter then top up to 30L with cold water and add about a quarter cup of yeast.

It should ferment out in 3 or 4 days depending on ambient temps, and I leave it to clear for another 3 or 4 days, I strip it fast and collect everything except fore shots until it hits 20% ABV and dump the lot into my other keg, usually end up with about 8 or 9 liters of low wines from each 50L stripping run.

2nd generation onwards.

Add 10 to 12 liters of the hot slops back into a bucket, tip sugar in and leave it to invert until its cooled and chuck it back on lees from last ferment, top up to 30 Liters and it'll fire up in a couple of hours.

Keep stripping batches until you got the 4th or 5th generation in the spare keg,then do a slow n steady spirit run.

Oh yeh! and I take about a half liter of grains out of the fermenter and add the same amount of fresh grains back each time.

Makes a real good whiskey

This one mate. :greetings-waveyellow:

[bourboncask]

Thanks

[bourboncask]

bt1, is this the sort of yeast bomb you where talking about?

http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/viewt ... ?f=2&t=663

[bourboncask]

Also, I've been keeping my wash/beer at around 78-80 degrees using Alcotec Turbo Yeast when I run my 1 gal Turbo 5000. I'm going to go away from Turbo yeast in my new still. Everything I'm reading regarding Windsor yeast's says to ferment at around 70 degrees F (21.1 degrees C). I'm guessing that's a main reason Turbo's work faster huh?

[bt1]

Howdy,

pretty much that yeast bomb has about the right balance. What's missing is waiting till it cooled to yeast pitching temp, then adding the new yeast to allow it to grow /multiply. He's using it as a yeast primer not to grow yeast volumes.

tips here

wider flatter containers are better cos yeast gets more air.
good quality water...if it's tap water 3/4 fill a 5lt jar the night before so chlorine/chemicals piss off, and next day aerate it vigorously so its full of O2.
yeast can be fresh pitch from packet or the yeast slops from previous wash fermenter.
put yeast jar about 5lt in size, in a larger bucket/sink/bath of water at pitching temp so temp stays fairly constant in yeast jar.

I use DME dried malt extract cos it's near complete yeast food and cheap. About 200ml per 5 lt yeast bomb. Still add, boiled yeast for proteins/food, Epsom salts for yeast cell wall repair and DAP , Vit B tablet for food source
small gently stir yeast often so yeast gets exposure to air....Once O2 level drops yeast will stop replicating and start anaerobic digestion = making alco which you don't want at growth phase.
Add all the ingredients prior to yeast, check temp id =pitching temp then add yeast packet or yeast slops.

For some idea 1 pkt say 11g done this way the day prior would be enough to use on 2 - 3 x 60lt fermenters without issue

bt1

[BackyardBrewer]

For some idea 1 pkt say 11g done this way the day prior would be enough to use on 2 - 3 x 60lt fermenters without issue

bt1

+1 - plus this method means you know you have other problems if it doesn't kick off like a rocket. This method builds a big healthy colony of active working yeast. That's very different to pitching dry or even liquid yeast that you've rehydrated.

[bourboncask]

Thanks guys. I'm hopefully going to get to this in a couple days. I do have other questions though.

1) in that article about the yeast bomb, it says

"2x B-complex vitamins crushed up, I have also used liquid B-vitamin plant feed with good results.
Ingredients to look out for are
Thiamine mononitrate (B-1)
Niacinamide (B-3)
Calcium D-Pantothenate (B-5)
Riboflavin (B-2)
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B-6)"

When he says "to look out for" is he saying that's good?? The way it sounds, he's saying to look out for these like there a bad thing. Every B - complex I've seen has all these in it.

2) I'll be making a 30-31L batch. Should I stick to his measurements or cut it down since he's making it for 50L?

3) my buddy makes beer, and he said he has a liquid Wyeast American Ale in a smack pack 128 grams of yeast and nutrients. Could the nutrients it's refering to be the same as I'd be making in a yeast bomb? Or should I use this liquid yeast in my yeast bomb.

I wish I lived by somebody who does this to show me the ropes. I feel like I'm asking entirely to many "dumb" questions. Bear with me please. Once I get one batch made right, I'll be good. I learn by doing, not so much reading directions and doing. Hands on kind of guy.

[BackyardBrewer]

The smack packs are a commercial version of a homemade yeast bomb. When you smack the pack you release the nutrients (DAP and some malt sugars to eat from memory in wyeast) and that causes the pack to swell as the yeast gets to work.

Go the homemade. I'd probably use dap over vitamin b, but I'll let others advise on the winner of those two.

[Sam.]

The smack packs are usually fairly pricey as well, from memory about 12 -15 bucks. :handgestures-thumbdown: