Alcohol content relative to flavor.

[newbiboozer]

Hi it may seem like a dumb question but say for 2 x 60 liter UJ or BWKO washes with the same amount of grain but one with 5 kg of sugar and the other 8 kg flavor wise would the 5 kg of sugar wash make less alcohol with much more flavor than the other. Basically just trying to establish if less sugar makes stronger flavor.

[Brendan]

Hard to give an exact answer as people have different experiences and different tastes...

The one with greater amount of sugar will create more alcohol, given the same amount of grain, and a yeast with an appropriate alcohol tolerance.

In my opinion, a whiskey with less sugar will always taste better. Sugar tends to provide a thinner, harsher product with a bit more bite...the less sugar, the more authentic you 'should' find the result.

But then some people can drink firewater and think its the greatest thing ever :o

You will find you get a better yield (more product) from the one with more sugar, but in terms of flavour it will be lacking a bit in comparison. I think you will prefer the one with less sugar :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Brendan]

edit: It's only just clicked that you are not using the sugar in the grains for fermentation, but just the grains for flavour :shifty:

Obviously the wash with more sugar will produce a higher alc wash, which may dilute your flavour slightly...or you may not even notice ;-)

[bt1]

Tend to agree,

more sugar slightly reduced flavour but not found it to be major like a real drop in flavours.

Just as a suggestion if you want to retain good flavours in higher sugar level UJ etc consider using light dried malt, DME, or brewers malt, it adds flavour provides sugars for fermenting much better/faster , lower FG than plain table sugars and ferments fairly quickly.

You may want to drop a kg of sugar and add 1.2 - 1.4kg of malt for a flavour boost depending on quality of malt used. There's also dark malt and wheat dried malts along with 10's of cans of liquid malt extracts, = LME, ( non hopped types, hopped is for beer use)

here's 3 grades of malt cans I use regularly from Coopers

http://www.coopers.com.au/#/diy-beer/malt-extract-cans/malt-extract-cans/

Hope this may assist
bt1

[newbiboozer]

Thanks Bt1 and Brendan that has been very helpful and I will be experimenting with the LME and DMEs I think. Is there any reason for say Macs Bourbon knock off recipe only having only 3.5kg of sugar in a 30 liter wash as opposed to his Mac whiskey or rum having sugar as well as malt extract and molasses. Don't know if I've made it clear or not what I'm getting at but I guess long story short say for the BWKO is there any negative to increasing the sugar. I know it is a proven recipe with time developing it and don't want to offend anyone but am trying to understand the development of the recipes and how the amount of sugar is established.

[Brendan]

Is there any reason for say Macs Bourbon knock off recipe only having only 3.5kg of sugar in a 30 liter wash as opposed to his Mac whiskey or rum having sugar as well as malt extract

Your question is valid with these recipes. As you picked up on, there are different quantities of sugar (raw+extract) between the two recipes, and therefore may yield different alcohol contents after fermentation. They are tried and proven, but it's all about experimentation...you can change up ingredients, just don't push the sugar too far or you'll stress the yeast with a high alc content and end up with fire water (IMO :D ).

If it were me, rather than dumping the grains into boiling water...insulate a keg/pot for a mash tun. Grind the corn (even put it in a blender) and throw that in the boiling water. Chuck the lid on and leave that sit for a few hours...add the wheat at it's appropriate temp in the mid 70's, and add the barley (cracked) at its conversion temp of 62-68 deg, and you'll end up with half the sugar from the grain for a much better flavour. Some would say this is too much effort, but it's really a bit of insulation, and monitoring temp every now and again for a few hours...

say for the BWKO is there any negative to increasing the sugar

I wouldn't think you'd notice a difference...unless you went too high (say pushing for 12+%ABV). I mean theoretically you're prob getting the same amount of flavour, but creating more alcohol, so maybe slightly diluting the flavour a bit...but realistically, I don't think you'll notice.

[bt1]

+1 Brendan,

The truth of it for mine is what works. it can be changed but for max sugar the limit is speed of ferment and too much sugar stresses the yeast. Stress yeast produce some funky flavours not always bad but bloody un predictable so I avoid it.

For a 30lt was my max is usually around 5kg sugar equivalent total. So 4kg 1 can or kg malt would be about right.

A good yeast that suits your ambient temp range helps with yield so no point doing high sugars with an avg yeast imho ..a good start that ferments dry/lower FG's = EC1118. You can pick up 500gm for under $30 and it will last a year if kept in airtight in fridge.

Rums have more but also take longer and have a residual sugar carry over.

bt1