Toasting ?

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Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Sat May 06, 2017 8:36 pm

Just wondering if anyone has any experience toasting (not charring) wine barrel staves . For example what length of time , what temps etc .

Im heading off on a trip thru the Margaret River wine region tomorrow and going to see if I can get some staves off old wine or even port barrels . Got no idea whether it is possible to get them , here or not but I'm sure I remember a thread where someone did it over Mexico way there so thought Id give it a look then perhaps i'd be able to cut peices just how I want them at (hopefully) a reasonable price .

Appreciate any suggestions ,

Cheers Al
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Aussiedownunder01 » Sun May 07, 2017 6:38 am

I have toasted stales from old wine barrels First I sanded them then cut them into dominoes
Then put them on a tray in the oven at200 till they started to change colour
A few I left longer and higher temp they turned brittle and broke like charcoal
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Triangle » Sun May 07, 2017 7:05 pm

Similar to above. In SA we're lucky with plenty of wine made here. I pickup broken barrels etc for this use.

I shave the staves all round with a planer. I remove all the previous toast/wine and outside oxidation. I'm using mine for red wine during ferments so I want clean oak with no contaminants.

Then cut them into manageable pieces but of equal sizes (I'll get to this) to suit demijohn size.......of course they swell when in use so don't get too excited with a tight tolerance!

Toast at 180 C wrapped in foil for medium - I'm aiming for vanilla medium.
Another option is a source of direct heat and light water misting (wine I don't want a char).
This part is all a bit of trial and error and lots of sniffing and smelling.

Measure all your cut pieces, work out total cm2 of each piece - easy if they're similar.
I then aim for 60-90cm2/litre to mimick a 200lt barrel.
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Swedish Pride » Mon May 08, 2017 4:03 pm

ive bone from 180-200 for about an hour to an hour and a half, but I only do it to virgin wood, the wood in the barrels have already been toasted, I rechar em for new surface char though
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Lowie » Mon May 08, 2017 4:27 pm

Triangle wrote:Similar to above. In SA we're lucky with plenty of wine made here. I pickup broken barrels etc for this use.

I shave the staves all round with a planer. I remove all the previous toast/wine and outside oxidation. I'm using mine for red wine during ferments so I want clean oak with no contaminants.

Then cut them into manageable pieces but of equal sizes (I'll get to this) to suit demijohn size.......of course they swell when in use so don't get too excited with a tight tolerance!

Toast at 180 C wrapped in foil for medium - I'm aiming for vanilla medium.
Another option is a source of direct heat and light water misting (wine I don't want a char).
This part is all a bit of trial and error and lots of sniffing and smelling.

Measure all your cut pieces, work out total cm2 of each piece - easy if they're similar.
I then aim for 60-90cm2/litre to mimick a 200lt barrel.


Hey Triangle. Where do you score the broken barrels from?
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Wed May 10, 2017 11:50 am

Totally blanked on the broken barrel front at the wineries I went to , they were pretty much all disinterested , cant blame them really .

So the search will go on because I'm sick of paying $100 a kg at the HBS.
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Aussiedownunder01 » Wed May 10, 2017 2:32 pm

Buy a 1//2 barrel from bunnies $100.00
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Doubleuj » Wed May 10, 2017 4:18 pm

Aussiedownunder01 wrote:Buy a 1//2 barrel from bunnies $100.00

I've seen these, how could you be sure they're oak though and not perhaps something else? Or treated with some chemicals for sale?
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Wed May 10, 2017 4:30 pm

Doubleuj wrote:
Aussiedownunder01 wrote:Buy a 1//2 barrel from bunnies $100.00

I've seen these, how could you be sure they're oak though and not perhaps something else? Or treated with some chemicals for sale?


Yeh , my thought also . I've seen quite a few on Gumtree , but a lot of them have been either varnished or oiled with god knows what .

I'll keep looking , something will show up .
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby coffe addict » Wed May 10, 2017 5:24 pm

Try ringing a local cooperage they often sell the offcuts at a fair price.
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby bluc » Wed May 10, 2017 5:50 pm

Have seen the half barrels with jack danials stamp on them or is that a bogus stamp :-B
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Wed May 10, 2017 5:54 pm

coffe addict wrote:Try ringing a local cooperage they often sell the offcuts at a fair price.


No such thing in Perth as far as I know .

Nearest one I know of is in Mount Barker which is a lazy 600km round trip :scared-eek:
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Dig Brinker » Wed May 10, 2017 6:19 pm

Do they have a mail service in WA???? 8-}
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Wed May 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Dig Brinker wrote:Do they have a mail service in WA???? 8-}



Not that I'm aware of :teasing-tease:
Although there is talk of upgrading from horse and carriage if we can ever get some of our GST back from the bloody Mexicans :laughing-rolling:

Nah , just like everything I spose I'm just trying to score local to keep the costs down . I'll trip over some at some point :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby Triangle » Wed May 10, 2017 10:08 pm

If I get a chance over the next week I'll have a look around and see what I might be able to get my hands on. Can probably clean it up and send it off through courier relatively cheaply if you want. Give me an idea approx how much you need.
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Wed May 10, 2017 10:42 pm

Triangle wrote:If I get a chance over the next week I'll have a look around and see what I might be able to get my hands on. Can probably clean it up and send it off through courier relatively cheaply if you want. Give me an idea approx how much you need.


Thats a very generous offer thanks , only looking for a couple of staves worth . That'll probably See me out ;-)
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Sun May 21, 2017 5:10 pm

Finally found myself a supplier of wine barrel staves after much searching and pleading .

Now I need to decide on what size pieces to cut them into .

Anyone got any thoughts on size (despite what you hear size does matter ) ?
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby vqstatesman » Wed May 24, 2017 6:28 pm

You might have better luck asking them for offcuts for firewood, they might be more responsive. One of the local places here in SA (Tubbies) sells their offcuts as firewood. Giant bag of 5KG or so was $5 last time I was there.
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby coffe addict » Wed May 24, 2017 6:53 pm

End grain is no friend... I'd Cut them just shorter than the aging vessel.

I have three 4L jars aging with wood I toasted

The aim with the toasting was three batches. one of them to be at the sweet end of the toasting scale, one to be packed full of vanilla and one to be toasty with a hint of almond.
All three went in @170 for 1.5hrs then bottom tray came out and temp increase to 190 for 30mins middle tray came out. Temp increase to 220 for another 30 mins.
They have only been aging for 3months so the jury is still out but most seem to be inputting what I aimed for.

The vanilla was insane at 2months but has now mostly subsided as more complex flavours are developing. I think I'll end up blending for a flavour I'm happy with and using a combination of different toasted wood to replicate the blend. Reasoning here is each one is good but so far none are well rounded.
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Re: Toasting ?

Postby prawnz » Wed May 24, 2017 7:22 pm

vqstatesman wrote:You might have better luck asking them for offcuts for firewood, they might be more responsive. One of the local places here in SA (Tubbies) sells their offcuts as firewood. Giant bag of 5KG or so was $5 last time I was there.



Luckily I have tripped over a supplier and he loves a tipple of home made , every one wins .
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