High alcohol in barrels?

Discuss everything about oaking and aging here

High alcohol in barrels?

Postby Sam. » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:25 pm

I have seen numerous references in posts that people have to water down what they are storing in barrels, is the idea behind having high alcohol in the barrels to save space? or is does it mature quicker that way?

I have a 9L and 25L and have only had 40% in it, I guess I could double my capacity effectiely?
Sam.
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm
Location: South Oz Straya
equipment: Original FSD 5 plate 4 inch modular bubbler SSG with hand crafted plates and parrot by Mac.
18 Gal boiler.
2 x 2400W elements and power controller.
.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby QLD.Andy » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:50 pm

I have a 9lt and put 40% in it.
From my understanding, the higher % will pull out different flavours from the oak.
QLD.Andy
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:18 am
Location: andy.lives@qld.au/earth
equipment: Still Spirits T500 with Copper Mesh
McStill made Copper Parrot
McStill made Copper Pot Still

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby maheel » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:56 pm

what about when they talk about "cask / barrel strenght " i have seen some higher ABV bottles with that on them mostly around 60%
not really sure why but

scotch / bourbon etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cask_strength

this one 60%
http://www.themacallan.com/the-range/di ... release/1/

i normally age everything at 40% so then if i want to drink some it's ready to go :)
maheel
 

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby QLD.Andy » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:34 pm

Jack Daniels is barreled at 80% then watered down for bottling
QLD.Andy
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:18 am
Location: andy.lives@qld.au/earth
equipment: Still Spirits T500 with Copper Mesh
McStill made Copper Parrot
McStill made Copper Pot Still

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby MacStill » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:36 pm

McStill top shelf rum is oaked at 65% for :oops: then :mrgreen:
MacStill
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 16835
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Wide Bay QLD
equipment: Anything I choose :P

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby Sam. » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:00 am

I guess the big companies like jack daniels would do it purely for space saving to get more $.

I definetely find it more convenient to be able to just fill a bottle straight from the barrell without having to measure and cut it down.

The only thing that would have me interested if is somehow rapidly sped up the aging process??
Sam.
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm
Location: South Oz Straya
equipment: Original FSD 5 plate 4 inch modular bubbler SSG with hand crafted plates and parrot by Mac.
18 Gal boiler.
2 x 2400W elements and power controller.
.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby R-sole » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:07 am

It's not about saving space it's about pulling the correct flavours from the oak. Kiwi did a neat comparo over at HD a year or two back where he oaked identical samples at different strengths and tasted every few weeks.

It was quite interesting and confirmed what we already knew from the big boys;

Oaking at 65% (maximum by law for bourbon) takes maple, vannilla and honey flavours from toasted oak. Oaking at low proofs extracts more tannins and harshness.

Personally my spirits are stored in the barrels at 65%, then decanted into 4l jars or swing bottles at 65% on sticks until they reach the stage i want them at and then watered down at bottling time.

If someone with access does a search over there they may find the thread.
R-sole
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:15 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia
equipment: Keg based pot stiller. 3" vm for occasionally making product for macerations and redistillation.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby busman » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:13 am

busman
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 9:56 am
Location: Sydney
equipment: 2" VM column, 2" pot still, 55L keg boiler

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby R-sole » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:27 am

Thanks busman, i'm posititve kiwi wouldn't mind me posting his tasting notes from the experiment...

The taste differences that 5% can bring are astonishing. It is hard to believe that all the samples are from the same base spirit. In most cases, you could bottle them separately and convince anyone they are completely different spirits. I'll copy in our tasting notes, in order of sampling.

Char, 50% - highly smoky, almost tar-like on the nose. Harsh overtones. very rough on the tongue, especially on the back of the palate.

Char, 55% - Noticeably smoother and lighter in flavour, and a bit more texture (tannin) to it. more approachable. a little less smoke on the nose and not tar-like, but smoke is still the overriding characteristic.

Char, 60% - smooth smoke on the nose followed by sweet fruitiness, much more complex, full. Stone fruits on the palate, with the smokiness becoming more of a background taste. lots of frontal palate stuff, noticeably sweeter.

Char, 65% - Much lighter nose. Extremely approachable. Much less smoke. still full and fruity on the palate though, if a little lighter. vanilla background.

Char, 70% - Rougher nose. lack of fruit. lots of vanilla and not much else. spirit is noticeably less smooth in the mouth with more burn, but taste is VERY light, not much flavour. just vanilla. no fruits.

Toast, 50% - Extremely dry. a touch of grass / hay on the nose, and a touch of fruitiness on the palate. No vanilla.

Toast, 55% - Extremely harsh. Almost undrinkable. Possibly we thought something has gone wrong with this sample. checked the oak and it was indistinguishable from the other toasted samples, so we think that maybe this is a genuine result. VERY woody, lack of vanilla, an almost saltly mid-palate taste through the burn. seriously nasty.

Toast, 60% - Completely different from the 55%. A light nose with no smoke to speak of, and VERY fruity, stone fruits with hints of berry. faint vanilla coming through on the nose. a very bold taste, excellent character. We were spitting the samples back out but I couldn't resist this one... just slips down. Very smooth.

Toast, 65% - Reminds us of the 55% a bit... getting rough again. Less fruit, a lot mor tannins with a bit more vanilla.

Toast, 70% - VERY vanilla nose, but quite harsh and burning. A HUGE tannin hit, heaps of texture right to the back of the throat. sort of like chewing on sawdust. Nasty.

Right so there you have it. My conclusions are that on toasted I'll try to put it in at ~62ish and try to have it out by not too far under 60. that 55% sample was just nasty. For charred, I think that the approachability of the 65% warrants me putting it down at 65%, and then if it isn't sleeping for years, giving it a dilution to 60-61% after a spell and then leaving it for an equivalent amount of time to get that fruity hit.

I'll also add that tasting 10 samples of whisky is bloody hard work.

Cheers,
Kiwi
Three sheets to the wind!

R-sole
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:15 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia
equipment: Keg based pot stiller. 3" vm for occasionally making product for macerations and redistillation.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby Sam. » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:00 pm

Would not have guessed it would make that much difference.

Might try filling my 9L with higher proof and see what happens.

I am assume that when you take an alcohol reading after its been the barrel a while and the taste and colour have changed that the reading is near the same? Or does the loss of some of the alcohol leave it slightly watered down? Is it still an accurate reading when it is like this? as I have only ever measures clean spirit before.
Sam.
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm
Location: South Oz Straya
equipment: Original FSD 5 plate 4 inch modular bubbler SSG with hand crafted plates and parrot by Mac.
18 Gal boiler.
2 x 2400W elements and power controller.
.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby MacStill » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:09 pm

More than likely your ABV will drop a little when long term aging your likker, it's what we call the "angels share" ;)
MacStill
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 16835
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Wide Bay QLD
equipment: Anything I choose :P

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby busman » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:48 pm

Yup, timber breathes - air in and booze out :lol: :lol:
busman
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 9:56 am
Location: Sydney
equipment: 2" VM column, 2" pot still, 55L keg boiler

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby maheel » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:24 pm

i breath too...

booze in, talking sh$t out of my mouth.... lol :D
maheel
 

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby rumby » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:31 am

Thankyou gentlemen this post was an exellent reading an full of heaps of good info, wont be long until it is oaking.
rumby
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:33 am
Location: Brisbane
equipment: CC reflux still

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby R-sole » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:02 am

A good quality thick barrell like those from roll out the barrell will not loose anywhere near as much as some of the ebay ones.

I've aged for 18 months and couldn't pick a drop in a 50l, although it may have lost a little volume, i didn't check.
R-sole
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:15 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia
equipment: Keg based pot stiller. 3" vm for occasionally making product for macerations and redistillation.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby rumby » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:25 pm

5Star where did you get your barrells.

I will probably just sit my rum in 5l demijohn on chared oak until I can get a lot of volume up to fill a 50l

Everyone seems to be saying old wine barrells are the go. I have a 200l barrell from the old beenleigh rum distillery, was planning to cut it up, but decided it is too good and it will be the main posts for my bar.
rumby
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:33 am
Location: Brisbane
equipment: CC reflux still

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby MacStill » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:00 pm

roll out the barrell

Google search results ;)

http://www.rolloutthebarrel.com.au/

:mrgreen:
MacStill
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 16835
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Wide Bay QLD
equipment: Anything I choose :P

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby R-sole » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:01 pm

Mom and pop business. great people, great service fantastic product.

hint; 50-100l barrels are as cheap as 20l ones.

Hint 2; ask for used wood not new.

hint3; negotiate a price ;)


http://www.rolloutthebarrel.com.au/


edit, last hint...take along a bottle when you go to pick up your barrel. The boys will appreciate it.
R-sole
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:15 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia
equipment: Keg based pot stiller. 3" vm for occasionally making product for macerations and redistillation.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby Sam. » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:04 pm

how much you looking at for a 25L or 50L?
Sam.
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 10405
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:19 pm
Location: South Oz Straya
equipment: Original FSD 5 plate 4 inch modular bubbler SSG with hand crafted plates and parrot by Mac.
18 Gal boiler.
2 x 2400W elements and power controller.
.

Re: High alcohol in barrels?

Postby MacStill » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:07 pm

all the prices are on the site ;)
MacStill
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 16835
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Wide Bay QLD
equipment: Anything I choose :P

Next

Return to Oaking and Aging



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests

cron

x