Fast Oaking

Discuss everything about oaking and aging here

Fast Oaking

Postby flamehawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:40 pm

Gents,
I have tried two options to date and I have a prefered option

1) adding around 10grams HBS chips to 400mm of dbl distilled whiskey at 85%. Heating to 80deg and removing from heated water and screwing the lid on. Leaving the distitlate to cool. remove chips and serve on ice

2) adding around 10grams HBS chips to 400mm of dbl distilled whiskey at 85%. Leaving at room temp to age

Option one is perfect. Great taste smooth and good feedback from taste testers.

Option 2 left for two weeks is still not colored enough and tasts like wood

Am i doing somethign wrong?
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Zak Griffin » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:10 pm

Apart from heating a highly volatile liquid to well above its flash point, drinking spirit at dangerous ABV%, using too much oak and 'aging' at 85% instead of 65%... I think you're doing everything pretty spot on!

Oh, and it'll take more than 2 weeks to get good flavours and colour out of the oak...
Zak Griffin
Mentor
 
Posts: 5787
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Radelaide
equipment: "The Heart of Gold" - 4" Bubbler - finally bubbling!
"Zaphod" - 3" Pot - retired
"Agrajag" - 6" Bubbler - midlife crisis build?

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby flamehawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Hmmm. Shoud have clarified that the beverage was watered down to 40%

The idea is to heat the distitale no boil it



Happy to hear constructive thoughts.
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby flamehawk » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:14 pm

Not really sure its helpful to be passive agressive. The idea of a forum is fpr people to ask questions, seek advise and exchange ideas.

You can either choose to help/advise or ignore.

Ian
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Zak Griffin » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:45 pm

I, and most others here, generally put spirit on oak at ~65%... This will take desirable flavours and colour out of the timber.

If you're heating 85% spirit to 80°c, you are going to boiling at least some of it off...

I'm not sure what the group buy dominoes weigh... 10-20g? I use one domino in 2L of 65% spirit... For at LEAST 2 months...

I dunno what the HBS chips are like, but a bit of trial and error at different %s and different amounts of oak, for different times, should get you what you want.

Not trying to be passive-aggressive, just a little sarcastic. You'll notice that 70 other people have looked at the thread without suggesting anything.
Zak Griffin
Mentor
 
Posts: 5787
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Radelaide
equipment: "The Heart of Gold" - 4" Bubbler - finally bubbling!
"Zaphod" - 3" Pot - retired
"Agrajag" - 6" Bubbler - midlife crisis build?

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Andy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:55 pm

i like my rum lightly oaked, so i put in 1 domino per litre, mainly for colour and mild flavour. So i oak for 2-3 weeks.

my bourbon is 1 domino per 2 litres, and has been sitting for about 5 months at the moment.

before the dominos i was doing ddwg recipe and would oak with homebrew chips, about a teaspoon or so per litre and some essences.

I always oak at 65%

you can heat, cool, bubble, air, etc etc till the cow comes home, but you pick up a bottle of good scotch from the shops and it will say 18 years. time is of essence.
Andy
 
Posts: 1466
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: SOR, Perth
equipment: Copper Potstill on a 50L keg boiler with a 2200w element.
Doesn't get more simple then that

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:57 pm

Sounds like your first method is a variation of "nuclear aging" used by some that involves heating spirit in a microwave to force the liquid into the oak and then cooling it to create a vacuum and suck it back out .

I haven't tryed it but as the vessel is sealed ,there shouldn't be any loss of alcohol ....but the whole process freaks me out abit .

Personally ,I'm happy to just stick My Rum on oak and leave it for a few months .....but what ever you are happy and confident with will work for you.

My only advise would be to heat your spirit in a double boiler...IE ...stick the bottle of spirit in a pot of boiling water .Don't try and heat it directly....And please not on a gas cooker

And yeah most oak at 65% ...I used to...I have some at 78% for the last few months and it is not so bad as some might suggest
Yummyrum
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Near Coffs
equipment: Did use Still Spirits Reflux
Now use 50l Keg with Pot head for Rum and Neutral stripping runs on gas .
LM/VM head with 1m packed 2" on Still Spirits boiler for Neutrals.

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Urrazeb » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:04 pm

Yummyrum wrote:My only advise would be to heat your spirit in a double boiler...IE ...stick the bottle of spirit in a pot of boiling water .Don't try and heat it directly....And please not on a gas cooker

Ummm..
flamehawk wrote:Gents,
I have tried two options to date and I have a preferred option

1) adding around 10grams HBS chips to 400mm of dbl distilled whiskey at 85%. Heating to 80deg and removing from heated water and screwing the lid on.

I've tried this, but less than desirable results, maybe I did it wrong or maybe I just like too much tails in my booze (that adds to flavours over time)

I dunno.. It coloured up nicely and looked great but it was the same young whiskey that went in there.. not overly impressed. May be just me but I had no noticable improvement with distress aging :handgestures-thumbdown:
Urrazeb
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:42 am
Location: Perth
equipment: Column & pot

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby bt1 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:08 pm

+1 Zak,

Flame admire your spirit of adventure... but consider...if there were a better method don't you reckon we'd have nailed it by now :handgestures-thumbupleft:

65% and time as zak said... somethings you just can't rush mate.

ps aeration in cooler months can shave 2 months off out of 6 but the trade off is loss of volume and abv. See posts on aeration bloke.


bt1
bt1
 
Posts: 2448
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:56 am
Location: Adelaide
equipment: 2 x Glass Bubblers, 5 plate 89mm & 6 plate 110mm
4" 6 plate copper bubbler, 500mm copper packed section
Several pots, custom boiler
14 keg rotating brew setup, fermentation & dispenser fridges.

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:06 pm

Good pick-up Urazeb .....woops my bad
Yummyrum
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:19 pm
Location: Near Coffs
equipment: Did use Still Spirits Reflux
Now use 50l Keg with Pot head for Rum and Neutral stripping runs on gas .
LM/VM head with 1m packed 2" on Still Spirits boiler for Neutrals.

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Potmash Boka » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:23 pm

Occasionally I will put a couple of Litres on oak at 90% in a demijohn. Keep it in there for about 4-5 weeks. Then I use that for blending with other whisky that I think needs a bit more oak characteristic and colour.
Potmash Boka
 
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:18 pm
Location: The Shire( with all the Hobbits)
equipment: 2" pot and 4" thumper, 4" pot, 2" SS reflux, 2.5" Boka. 4" 5 plate bubbler( almost done, need to some bits and to make the column round again). SS boiler, 80L keg, 50L keg and a 30L keg boilers.
Various pieces of copper pipe laying around for future experiments.

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby crow » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:41 pm

Guys guys dangerous? really :wtf: Cough cough bullshit.
Flamehawk its no worries ok and yes it works pretty fast, just keep in mind that it works because ethanol is a solvent and solvents work faster at higher or rapidly changing temps. That being said the more soluble a compound is the more you will get of that compound with accelerated solvent activity . Now with oak one of the more readily soluble compounds are tanins so be aware of this as normally when someone describes a spirit as over oaked it means it has a disproportional amount of tanins to other compounds we are pre conditioned to expect in oaked spirit. Too much tanin will be bitter or astringent (think strong cold black tea) :-B
A repost of my old thread on it :handgestures-thumbupleft:
crow
 
Posts: 2327
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:44 am
Location: Central Highlands Victoria
equipment: ultra pure reflux still and a 4" 4 plate MacStill built copper bubble cap column and a 500mm scoria packed rectifying module

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Brendan » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:05 pm

I know everyone's different, so all I can say is what I do...

I won't even think about touching anything of mine under 6 months old...I consider that the minimum, but look for about 12 months for whiskey. If you can wait, it's another level in this hobby from the HBS chips and nuclear infusion.

I'm trying a bit of a system now where I've put a few different types down for a 12 month stint, and I will try to continue making them every 2-3 months (they're big batches)...that way after the first 12 months is up, there'll be stuff ready for bottling every few months, and I'll even look to push some of it out for longer ageing and see the effects...

Just my 2 cents. Some people can't wait a month, so you've got to do what you can manage. If you find it just tastes like oak after a zap in the microwave or heating it up, it's because all that's happened is some oak has been infused with the spirit and extracted an excess of bitter, astringent tannins...there's still no ageing unfortunately :handgestures-thumbdown:

My guess on the matter is a little bit of oak for a long time is the 'secret' recipe for liquid gold :D

edit: posted same time as crow
Brendan
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW
equipment: 4.99L Essential oil extractor

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby crow » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:19 pm

I did find some more posts on it but not the thread showing how I did it. there are some pictures here though in this link Distress aging single malt
Basically I distress aged whiskey at barrel strength so 67 to 65%. I put the whiskey in a stock pot with the oak and then put the pot in an electric frypan filled with water and slowly boiled it. My stock pot has a glass lid and I could observe the vapor condensing on the lid and would turn it off and allow to cool, whullah done, As I said if you don't do all you have you can cuy with un-aged to your taste. It will not be as complexed by far as whiskey aged by time but if you need to have a drink ready that night this will do it :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Edit written but not posted before Brendan Yes in a perfect world you always have time I suppose, dunno never lived in one. I still say aging is done in a barrel and a barrel only (neutral in amphora jars excluded) , all subsequent methods are to closely imitate the effects of aging and are really for the most part flavoring, the longer its infused the more even the mix of soluble compounds but you won't get the effects of ullage and that is aging :handgestures-thumbupleft:
crow
 
Posts: 2327
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:44 am
Location: Central Highlands Victoria
equipment: ultra pure reflux still and a 4" 4 plate MacStill built copper bubble cap column and a 500mm scoria packed rectifying module

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Brendan » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:30 pm

crow wrote:I still say aging is done in a barrel and a barrel only (neutral in amphora jars excluded) , all subsequent methods are to closely imitate the effects of aging and are really for the most part flavoring


Yeah I completely agree with you there crow.

However, I do think a spirit sat for an extended period can by it's very definition be ageing...but as you say, only trying to mimic/imitate by flavouring, the process of ageing in a barrel.
Brendan
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW
equipment: 4.99L Essential oil extractor

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Urrazeb » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:02 am

Sorry FH for the off topic..

I have noticed even neutral spirit has improved woth age, be it a few weeks
Urrazeb
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:42 am
Location: Perth
equipment: Column & pot

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Brendan » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:10 am

Urrazeb wrote:Sorry FH for the off topic..

I have noticed even neutral spirit has improved woth age, be it a few weeks


It's a well documented and proven fact...chemical reactions occur altering the molecular structure of ethanol over time. Regardless of oak, ageing is ageing :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Brendan
 
Posts: 2141
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: Hunter Valley, NSW
equipment: 4.99L Essential oil extractor

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby Urrazeb » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:15 am

Brendan wrote:
Urrazeb wrote:Sorry FH for the off topic..

I have noticed even neutral spirit has improved woth age, be it a few weeks


It's a well documented and proven fact...chemical reactions occur altering the molecular structure of ethanol over time. Regardless of oak, ageing is ageing :handgestures-thumbupleft:

:handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Urrazeb
 
Posts: 2340
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:42 am
Location: Perth
equipment: Column & pot

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby flamehawk » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:15 pm

Zak Griffin wrote:I, and most others here, generally put spirit on oak at ~65%... This will take desirable flavours and colour out of the timber.

If you're heating 85% spirit to 80°c, you are going to boiling at least some of it off...

I'm not sure what the group buy dominoes weigh... 10-20g? I use one domino in 2L of 65% spirit... For at LEAST 2 months...

I dunno what the HBS chips are like, but a bit of trial and error at different %s and different amounts of oak, for different times, should get you what you want.

Not trying to be passive-aggressive, just a little sarcastic. You'll notice that 70 other people have looked at the thread without suggesting anything.


Ok, so need to bring the ABV down to 65%.
Less oak and longer
HBS chips seem hit and miss. Same packet labels, but some chips appear to a darker and more solid oak. Some are lighter and softer if that makes sense
Cheers
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Re: Fast Oaking

Postby flamehawk » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:18 pm

Yummyrum wrote:Sounds like your first method is a variation of "nuclear aging" used by some that involves heating spirit in a microwave to force the liquid into the oak and then cooling it to create a vacuum and suck it back out .

My only advise would be to heat your spirit in a double boiler...IE ...stick the bottle of spirit in a pot of boiling water .Don't try and heat it directly....And please not on a gas cooker

And yeah most oak at 65% ...I used to...I have some at 78% for the last few months and it is not so bad as some might suggest


Yep, booze was in a jar sitting immersed in 80deg water. removed and caps tightened.

I'll bring down the ABV as suggested and see how that goes.

Not sure its wise to pop it in the microwave given the highly flamable vapor.
flamehawk
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:43 pm
equipment: 4 plate custom built bubbler
50k Keg
2400w element

Next

Return to Oaking and Aging



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

x