flavoured vodka

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flavoured vodka

Postby greenguy » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:06 am

So how are the big boys doing it i don't mean soaking fruits more getting clear vodka to taste like raspberry etc infusions
maple,lime iv been trying to figure it out.

My miss loves absolute vodka raspberry and fejoa but i cant get it down with out soaking fruits in it
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Dominator » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:40 am

If you want a clear flavoured vodka, you soak your chosen fruit in some neutral hearts, then run it through a pot still.
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby troglodyte » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:32 pm

Put your neutral in your boiler and your fruit in a thumper
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby greenguy » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:03 pm

got a bubbler but hmmmmmmm what if u made the packed section in the middle of plates and loaded it with fruit ?????
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Dominator » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:33 pm

Take all the bubble plates, tee's and the RC out and voilà, pot still.
I reckon you could be onto something, distill some neutral and use a gin basket filled with fruit. You would need to talk to the gin blokes about that, I don't know shit about gin.
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Kimbo » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:41 pm

Dominator wrote:Take all the bubble plates, tee's and the RC out and voilà, pot still.

You wouldnt even need to do that, you can leave everything in and just turn off the RC and have the water going to the PC only :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby APLF » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:28 pm

Ive made a very nice lime vodka in the past and I'm about to make up some more. I do a run to get some vodka and then grate the peel off some limes and squeeze the juice and add it to the vodka. Throw away the white pith and body of the lime after squeezing the juice out. If you add this the flavour will have a bitter yuck taste through it. I then run this through the pot still and water down to desired strength and enjoy. If the flavour is too strong just add some neutral to lighten it up.
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Brendan » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:53 pm

greenguy wrote:So how are the big boys doing it i don't mean soaking fruits more getting clear vodka to taste like raspberry etc infusions
maple,lime iv been trying to figure it out.

My miss loves absolute vodka raspberry and fejoa but i cant get it down with out soaking fruits in it


I'll tell you exactly how they do it...with the use of expensive labs to create flavours and essences.

If you soak fruits, and then distill, you are making traditional schnapps...these aren't like the ones we are used to on our shelves. They are not sweet at all. The schnapps we see are generally flavoured with their own 'cordials' for want of a better word, which why they are fruity and sweet.

If you soak fruits, and don't distill, you are making a liqueur, which usually have to be sweetened with a sugar syrup mixture.

I understand what you're after and did a considerable amount of research, and at a hobby level it is very difficult to replicate the commercial products you see. I thought of over soaking the fruits for an extra strong flavour, then carbon filtering fast hoping to strip some of the colour. I've also considered vapour infusion, but you are essentially making a gin...
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby the Doctor » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:30 am

Brendan wrote:
greenguy wrote:So how are the big boys doing it i don't mean soaking fruits more getting clear vodka to taste like raspberry etc infusions
maple,lime iv been trying to figure it out.

My miss loves absolute vodka raspberry and fejoa but i cant get it down with out soaking fruits in it


I'll tell you exactly how they do it...with the use of expensive labs to create flavours and essences.

If you soak fruits, and then distill, you are making traditional schnapps...these aren't like the ones we are used to on our shelves. They are not sweet at all. The schnapps we see are generally flavoured with their own 'cordials' for want of a better word, which why they are fruity and sweet.

If you soak fruits, and don't distill, you are making a liqueur, which usually have to be sweetened with a sugar syrup mixture.

I understand what you're after and did a considerable amount of research, and at a hobby level it is very difficult to replicate the commercial products you see. I thought of over soaking the fruits for an extra strong flavour, then carbon filtering fast hoping to strip some of the colour. I've also considered vapour infusion, but you are essentially making a gin...


With respect, there are some misconceptions here, soaking fruits without distilling is a legitimate way to make a flavoured vodka. The problem often encountered is the problem of finding a suitable setting / fixing agent. By this I mean a chemical, component or herb which provides a molecular bond to hold the flavours and oils in suspension and prevent striation, oxidation and settling in the bottle. Distillers have for centuries used various botanicals for this very reason. Orris Root ( Iris germanic a,iris florentina, & iris pallida. ) is a good example it has fixative properties and provides a very pleasant base note to the nose of the product ( a bit like violets ) It is particularly good for making a Raspberry Vodka as the taste of Orris is absolutely inditinguishable from raspberry itself.

For your Raspberry vodka I would steep the raspberries in Azeotrope for no more than a week to a week and a half. Filter twice through a fine mesh colander then twice through a coffee filter or lab paper filter, then combine this with a mixture of Orris and water ( also filtered carefully to taste )...alternately for a slightly sweeter spirit you can combine stevia and boiling water and use this as your setting / fixative. For vodka I prefer stevia. The obsession with an absolutely clear spirit is driven by marketing, not taste, you will see that I do not clear my flavoured vodkas, as we found that it stripped much of the flavour, so for me carbon filtration is out.

Vapour infusion is an option and if you were to do it without juniper...it is by definition NOT a gin. It is a vapour infused vodka. As Juniper (juniperus comunis comunis) must be present for a product to be called, or indeed taste like a gin. I have not tried vapour infusion with Raspberry and do not know that it would render a very strong flavour, so i will try a basket next run and see how it goes.

Leaf stevia in it's processed form ( Brands such as Natvia) provides an excellent easily dissolved setting / fixative agent which Louches pleasntly in the glass, is cheap and easily handled. For the first time flavoured vodka maker this is a good starting point. I use stevia in my Rose petal, orange blossom, and lemon vodkas. It is a good foil to these tincture based vodkas, adding subtle sweetness and assuring a long shelf like without oxidation. I personally like the subtle louche ( clouding ) that it creates when it comes in contact with mixers such as tonic..

You do not need an expensive laboratory to make successful flavoured vodkas...but you do have to make a tincture as a base flavour. Using Azeotrope as a botanical solvent will deliver very concentrated flavours. I advocate making these concentrates which can then be made stable with a setting agent / fixative then diluted with water and vodka to taste ...just soaking in vodka will not deliver the flavour extraction you are probably looking for, and will deny you the ability to create the spirit to be exactly what you want by blending. I hope that this all makes sense.
Cheers.

Doc
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby halfbaked » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:11 am

With respect, there are some misconceptions here, soaking fruits without distilling is a legitimate way to make a flavoured vodka. The problem often encountered is the problem of finding a suitable setting / fixing agent. By this I mean a chemical, component or herb which provides a molecular bond to hold the flavours and oils in suspension and prevent striation, oxidation and settling in the bottle. Distillers have for centuries used various botanicals for this very reason. Orris Root ( Iris germanic a,iris florentina, & iris pallida. ) is a good example it has fixative properties and provides a very pleasant base note to the nose of the product ( a bit like violets ) It is particularly good for making a Raspberry Vodka as the taste of Orris is absolutely inditinguishable from raspberry itself.

For your Raspberry vodka I would steep the raspberries in Azeotrope for no more than a week to a week and a half. Filter twice through a fine mesh colander then twice through a coffee filter or lab paper filter, then combine this with a mixture of Orris and water ( also filtered carefully to taste )...alternately for a slightly sweeter spirit you can combine stevia and boiling water and use this as your setting / fixative. For vodka I prefer stevia. The obsession with an absolutely clear spirit is driven by marketing, not taste, you will see that I do not clear my flavoured vodkas, as we found that it stripped much of the flavour, so for me carbon filtration is out.

Vapour infusion is an option and if you were to do it without juniper...it is by definition NOT a gin. It is a vapour infused vodka. As Juniper (juniperus comunis comunis) must be present for a product to be called, or indeed taste like a gin. I have not tried vapour infusion with Raspberry and do not know that it would render a very strong flavour, so i will try a basket next run and see how it goes.

Leaf stevia in it's processed form ( Brands such as Natvia) provides an excellent easily dissolved setting / fixative agent which Louches pleasntly in the glass, is cheap and easily handled. For the first time flavoured vodka maker this is a good starting point. I use stevia in my Rose petal, orange blossom, and lemon vodkas. It is a good foil to these tincture based vodkas, adding subtle sweetness and assuring a long shelf like without oxidation. I personally like the subtle louche ( clouding ) that it creates when it comes in contact with mixers such as tonic..

You do not need an expensive laboratory to make successful flavoured vodkas...but you do have to make a tincture as a base flavour. Using Azeotrope as a botanical solvent will deliver very concentrated flavours. I advocate making these concentrates which can then be made stable with a setting agent / fixative then diluted with water and vodka to taste ...just soaking in vodka will not deliver the flavour extraction you are probably looking for, and will deny you the ability to create the spirit to be exactly what you want by blending. I hope that this all makes sense.
Cheers.

Doc

WOW!!!!! Doc it sounds like you have done that before. I don't want to hijack this thread but Doc what would you do if you were making peach? I understand that making it from peach would be the best way but if I were running low on peaches and wanted to have a peach flavor what would you do? If you want to move my post that would be OK.
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby dogbreath vodka » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:11 am

the Doctor wrote:Leaf stevia in it's processed form ( Brands such as Natvia) provides an excellent easily dissolved setting / fixative agent which Louches pleasntly in the glass, is cheap and easily handled.
Austral herbs?

For the first time flavoured vodka maker this is a good starting point. I use stevia in my Rose petal, orange blossom, and lemon vodkas.
It is a good foil to these tincture based vodkas, adding subtle sweetness and assuring a long shelf like without oxidation. I personally like the subtle louche ( clouding ) that it creates when it comes in contact with mixers such as tonic..

You do not need an expensive laboratory to make successful flavoured vodkas...but you do have to make a tincture as a base flavour. Using Azeotrope as a botanical solvent will deliver very concentrated flavours. I advocate making these concentrates which can then be made stable with a setting agent / fixative then diluted with water and vodka to taste
So are you saying that you make a tincture and then soak the Leaf stevia?
I'm unsure on how the process works.



...just soaking in vodka will not deliver the flavour extraction you are probably looking for, and will deny you the ability to create the spirit to be exactly what you want by blending. I hope that this all makes sense.
Cheers.

Doc



Thanks Doc,
In that short paragraph you have helped and confused me heaps. 8-} :D :D
Would it be possible to post a thread on tinctures for vodka?
That way we Vodka lovers might just get to make some decent stuff. :D :pray:

DBV

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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Smbjk » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:17 am

dogbreath vodka wrote:
the Doctor wrote:Leaf stevia in it's processed form ( Brands such as Natvia) provides an excellent easily dissolved setting / fixative agent which Louches pleasntly in the glass, is cheap and easily handled.
Austral herbs?

For the first time flavoured vodka maker this is a good starting point. I use stevia in my Rose petal, orange blossom, and lemon vodkas.
It is a good foil to these tincture based vodkas, adding subtle sweetness and assuring a long shelf like without oxidation. I personally like the subtle louche ( clouding ) that it creates when it comes in contact with mixers such as tonic..

You do not need an expensive laboratory to make successful flavoured vodkas...but you do have to make a tincture as a base flavour. Using Azeotrope as a botanical solvent will deliver very concentrated flavours. I advocate making these concentrates which can then be made stable with a setting agent / fixative then diluted with water and vodka to taste
So are you saying that you make a tincture and then soak the Leaf stevia?
I'm unsure on how the process works.




...just soaking in vodka will not deliver the flavour extraction you are probably looking for, and will deny you the ability to create the spirit to be exactly what you want by blending. I hope that this all makes sense.
Cheers.

Doc



Thanks Doc,
In that short paragraph you have helped and confused me heaps. 8-} :D :D
Would it be possible to post a thread on tinctures for vodka?
That way we Vodka lovers might just get to make some decent stuff. :D :pray:

DBV




:text-+1: :pray: :pray: :pray: maybe the moderators shough start up a master class section were guys like doc can provide a detailed explanation and method. Only if they have time 8-}
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Brendan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:10 am

Thanks for the correction Doc :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I had thought that possibly vapour infusion without key gin ingredients (ie. juniper berries) may not technically be a gin, so thank you for the clarification. I would be interested to try and vapour infuse vodka...not getting the sweetness from some fruits would be my main concern.
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby the Doctor » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:08 am

WOW!!!!! Doc it sounds like you have done that before. I don't want to hijack this thread but Doc what would you do if you were making peach? I understand that making it from peach would be the best way but if I were running low on peaches and wanted to have a peach flavor what would you do? If you want to move my post that would be OK.


Firstly I must appologise i have never tried to work with peaches, but I can see that being asoft flesh fruit they may be a bit problematic, as they will probably want to form a gelatinous mass, which could be really hard to seperate and filter... but you know I would give it a try. the worse thyat could happen is the end result will be a bit thick.

Leaf stevia in it's processed form ( Brands such as Natvia) provides an excellent easily dissolved setting / fixative agent which Louches pleasntly in the glass, is cheap and easily handled.
Austral herbs?


No you can buy stevia in the supermarket under the natvia brand, this will save you a ton of time. Add 200 grams to 1 liter of boiling water add that to 1 liter of your azeotrope botanical tincture... this should end up about 40% ABV...then break that down with 40% vodka and there you have it the worlds easiest botanical or fruit vodka.

You do not need an expensive laboratory to make successful flavoured vodkas...but you do have to make a tincture as a base flavour. Using Azeotrope as a botanical solvent will deliver very concentrated flavours. I advocate making these concentrates which can then be made stable with a setting agent / fixative then diluted with water and vodka to taste
So are you saying that you make a tincture and then soak the Leaf stevia?
I'm unsure on how the process works.

No just buy the stevia off the supermarket shelf... It is only worth extracting once you get up to hundreds of bottles in volume. Then see the paragraph immediately above this for the process.

Thanks Doc,
In that short paragraph you have helped and confused me heaps. 8-} :D :D
Would it be possible to post a thread on tinctures for vodka?
That way we Vodka lovers might just get to make some decent stuff. :D :pray:

DBV


I am sorry if I was not clear mate... I will try to keep it more understandable...sometimes I shoot off without thinking... We have a pretty good thread going here and if the Mods are happy for us to talk tinctures we can keep it in the context of flavoured vodkas. Which is after all where most of our tinctures are used. I will go and take some photos and post some examples in as soon as I can. Tinctures are easy and really open up the possibilities for product diversity. Cheers.
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby the Doctor » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:37 am

OK as it happens Ian my trusty distilling assistant is making tinctures this morning, as he was yesterday...todays tincture is orange, which we use in three different products. I will post the photos and please ask any questions. You will see in the photos of our tincture jars extractions of Cloves and Cardamon ( small jars ) Lemon medium sized jars. Morticians Glue, brown herbal bitters base and Xyloptomy drops the largest jar. Have a look and ask away I will answer and explain what I can.
Doc
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby dogbreath vodka » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:11 am

That's gold. :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Thanks Doc

DBV
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby CH3CH2OH » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:35 pm

what a great post!!!!

Thanks
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby Konzo » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Ian is a top distillers assistant, and Doc you are the master :-)
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby peterhobit » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:05 pm

this thread is getting me so excited. So a tincture is a botanical soaked in neutral spirit? If I were to make a Kaffir lime tincture I would grate a few kaffir limes, soak it in spirit and fix it with a stevia solution? is this correct?
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Re: flavoured vodka

Postby the Doctor » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:00 pm

In essence Peter you are correct... I have not done Kaffir lime but have done lemons ( see photos) and tahitian limes using the skins... You remove the skin with a micro plane or a corn scraper ( the type for foot corns ) remove none of the pith ( the white part under the skin ...it is really bitter. Then soak in 95 % Azeotrope to extract the flavour, aroma and oils. this takes from 3 days to a week and a half...when the citrus skin starts to go a tiny bit brown it is telling you that all the good stuff has been removed...filter the alcohol off the skin...While you are infusing the tincture remember to invert or stir it every day, it helps to extract the oils...

Then take the azeotrope, break it 50 / 50 with stevia disolved in boiling water from memory i think it is about 200 grams to the liter ( but I have to check my diary " the Knowledge " which is up in the distillery ) Take this and combine with 40% vodka and there you have it...do not hold your stock solution or itincture for longer than 2 weeks without combining with the vodka or it will oxidise...Remember it is not stable till the stevia is included... IF you want to hold tincture for longer you may need to add Orris root ( Iris) to it to stabilise it.

If I were doing Kaffir which has a lot of flavour in the leaves i would do either a second smaller infusion of fresh leaves in a small jar and see how that goes to back blend with the vodka...or a vapour infusion in a Carter head for the same purpose.

While not clear this will give you a fully professional product..it will Louche very pleasantly with tonic water and be very very refreshing. Cheers.
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