Inline Carter Head

[WTDist]

So since im taking my time ive been thinking about how carter heads operate and work to make a nice gin, better than a blockhead. If it didnt do a better job than a blockhead everyone would just use a blockhead. :-B
Normal one is out of my price range to build but i was thinking about making an inline section below my blockhead botanical basket. I read the other weak that Doc said carter heads need a fair amount of power to work properly so plates arnt the best option compared to overpowering a packed column.

so my thoughts

Im aiming for a 1m packed 4" section or there about as height isnt much of an issue where i will still.

So im thinking about making a plate section to go above the RC. One of Macs 4" or 6" glass sections (depends if size matters here) in between 2 * 50mm 4" copper spacers to give this section including below plate 220mm to allow me to bolt rods and triclamp section, kindof like macs glass modules.
The DC and cap etc in drawing below are not to size as i just want to get the idea out there at the moment.

Im thinking if i make the bath depth big enough it will hold alot of oils and reboil them (would need to pre fill DC so not to bypass bubble cap) on the plate before they make their way to the DC as there will be no RC above, just passive reflux and oils from the botanical basket. I see normally they have a drain or butterfly valve i think? to empty them as they get too full but i figure maybe a bath depth of 100mm or so might be good enough to hold it long enough for a good product. The plate will be as low as possible below the glass (in 50mm section) to allow for more room

Feel like im rambling a bit here 8-} so ill just post my pic below, kind of like an inline 4" thumper above the RC and below the botanical basket.
sections are from top down...
* blockhead/gin basket
* glass module with large bath for reboil with 50mm spacers either end
* RC

inline carter.jpg

Pretty sure im defiantly going to do this when i get to that stage but i would love some input on peoples thoughts that have used carter heads or know a bit about them. :D I think carter heads are useful in the way that they collect the oils and reboil them as well as vapor infuse and stop the oils traveling back to the boiler? This is what made me think of a kind of 4" thumper above the RC.

Anyway still rambling. Keen to hear what people think :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers
WT

[bluc]

I like the idea of a inline thumper below a blockhead gin basket to catch the oil. Any negatives to having upward vapour bubble through the oils? Is there stuff in the oils you don't want in the final product? Thinking maybe there is as the carter head oil collection is below vapour path? But no idea never used one just thoughts..

[jacobraven]

FSD do a inline gin basket could probably replicate it

[WTDist]

I like the idea of a inline thumper below a blockhead gin basket to catch the oil. Any negatives to having upward vapour bubble through the oils? Is there stuff in the oils you don't want in the final product? Thinking maybe there is as the carter head oil collection is below vapour path? But no idea never used one just thoughts..

Carterheads pass the vapour through the oils collected in the bottom.

No need for a gin basket as i will have one. carterheads have basket for vapour and bubblecap for oils from what i have seen. ill try find the thread with the diagram in it in half hour or so

[Darwin award]

The sheer volume of Gin I now drink is making me think carter head also, keeping the oils out of the boiler isn't so much of a problem for me, afterall, I used to dump a botanical maceration in the boiler, till my FSD gin-caddy turned up. keeping the heavy oils off the bubble plates is more of an issue as I'm essentially lazy and don't want to have to strip the still down and clean the bottom two plates after every gin-run. Better flavor is the primary goal but making ones life easier counts too. Will be watching this thread with some interest! :handgestures-thumbupleft: (but one my lil divorce thingamy is settled I'll just buy an FSD unit, I really like the design.

[WTDist]

I like the idea of a inline thumper below a blockhead gin basket to catch the oil. Any negatives to having upward vapour bubble through the oils? Is there stuff in the oils you don't want in the final product? Thinking maybe there is as the carter head oil collection is below vapour path? But no idea never used one just thoughts..

Carterheads pass the vapour through the oils collected in the bottom.

No need for a gin basket as i will have one. carterheads have basket for vapour and bubblecap for oils from what i have seen. ill try find the thread with the diagram in it in half hour or so

here is the carter head design. I intend to shorten the basket and make it inline rather than offset if thats the term to use? the tee above the glass section is not needed if its inline, and basket section will sit at bottom of the blockhead, maybe just under in the 50mm spacer. will see. still after feedback on what people think.

[warramungas]

How are you going to drain it if excess fluid builds up in the bottom.
Otherwise, you've just got a thumper with a gin basket above it.

[WTDist]

How are you going to drain it if excess fluid builds up in the bottom.
Otherwise, you've just got a thumper with a gin basket above it.

basically it, thumper. drain will be a DC but a high one. just wondering what carter head people think

[the Doctor]

The carter head in the above illustration is the one I designed with Mac (that is my drawing) ...it has work without any issues for about 2 years now...it is a solid design and has won many awards for the output...if you have any questions re this design, hit me up. It is a winner.
Doc

[WTDist]

Cheers Doc, since ill have a gin basket in the top of my column i thought maybe i could add a plate section above the RC and below the basket like your drawing above but instead of having a vapour in from the side bending down in to the oil reservoir maybe i could have a high bubble cap and riser and instead of a drain/oil release valve maybe i could have a downcomer set to a longer length than normal. Kind of like making it a thumper section with no RC.

Am i right assuming that the carter head is a thumper, reboiling the oils in the reservoir to carry over more/extra or different flavours, not just vapor infused??

Main reason for wanting to give this a try is because i will have the blockhead already with the gin basket plus a single thumper section is less money to make than the whole carter head. I dont distill as much anymore so its just going to be gin and vodka for a while so keeping it simple while making a good drink would be great.

What im thinking is sort of like below leaving out the gin basket in the blockhead which i will already have (gin basket is in blockhead of original drawing), i changed my original pic a little. colours are
yellow is the 50mm long 4" copper spacers for triclamps
aqua is the 4" sight glass
green is 2" bubble cap
white is riser
red is downcomer which isnt to scale.

cht.png

Would there be a disadvantage of using a downcomer set to about... 100mm bath depth rathar than using a valve and draining it manually? i dont need to keep any oils after as i wont be distilling very often.
Also thinking of using a 6" glass section if mac has them separately so when i dont use it for gin (if its a good idea) then it can double as a 6" glass thumper at bottom of column for rum or whisky.

Does this sound like an alright idea for gin? Wondering if i made sense or just rambled :?

Cheers again Doc, always good the hear advice from the experienced :text-thankyoublue:

[scythe]

Remember that you want to be flavouring hearts, not an entire wash.
So once you have striped it, spirit run it, then gin run it.
Not only will the flavours come out individually but you can collect your entire run for drinking.

So a packed section is not really needed.

[WTDist]

yea i was planning on doing gin runs with hearts only after cuts. does it help to have higher ABV for vapour infusions or is a 40% boiler charge good enough run like a pot with the thumper (oil reservoir). I just saw alot of people running with plate sections in before carter heads and blockheads i thought it might be standard.

What is better for gin runs?
High ABV vapour (say packed section first to boost ABV) or
Lower ABV Vapour (pot with thumper)

[the Doctor]

yea i was planning on doing gin runs with hearts only after cuts. does it help to have higher ABV for vapour infusions or is a 40% boiler charge good enough run like a pot with the thumper (oil reservoir). I just saw alot of people running with plate sections in before carter heads and blockheads i thought it might be standard.

What is better for gin runs?
High ABV vapour (say packed section first to boost ABV) or
Lower ABV Vapour (pot with thumper)

I have sent you a PM but here are some insights into how we gin up.

We make gin via three methods 1. vapour infusion 2. vacuum infusion 3. masceration... my favourite is vapour infusion on a plated still running out vodka till hearts and only then inserting botanicals...we only use absolute hearts in our gin....after vapour infusion I like vacuum infusion for the speed and freshness of the flavours. The method i try to avoid is direct masceration / infusion, hard to stabilise, prone to louche and oily.
Doc

[Flinderspeakstill]

So what size carter head / gin basket would I need if I were to put one on the still that I use?
I can output up to 1L / min but average 600mL / min @ 90%, and get around 40L good hearts per run of 150L@37%.

[Zak Griffin]

You run at over 30L/hr? :think:

[Flinderspeakstill]

I can output over 30l per hour if I go for lower alcohol, but If I'm going for good spirit runs then I limit output to 400ml per minute, so about 22-24l per hour.
I think the gin basket would need to accomodate about 5kg of botanicals. :think:

[rumsponge]

yes, for 150L boiler charge @~40% you would need a basket that can hold approximately 4-5kg of botanicals. I dont have the FSD carter head, but I doubt that it will hold that much (probably closer to 1kg max). However, if designed properly, you could change botanical baskets during the run (put still back into full reflux or shut down power to boiler temporarily). I 'think' thats how Doc runs his FSD carter head. Alternatively, contact mac for a custom made carter head that suits your commercial still ?
cheers rs

[WTDist]

yea, the idea for changing botanicals mid run is t ogo full reflux then swap out the old and in with the new but having a basket to hold the full amount would be good also. what diameter is your big still? might be easy to have a part fitted or built for it. perhaps there is already one on the market?

Just saw your out past Jimboomba by a bit, do tours by any chance or still early days?

[Flinderspeakstill]

Still early days for tours, but we have a cellar door that's open Friday, Saturday, and Sunday's. Other times by appointment. We specialise in Shiraz, so even the spirit is Shiraz based. The column is 380mm diameter. Would need something in between the column and condenser.