Thumper build questions

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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby scythe » Thu May 04, 2017 1:33 pm

Or just put a short extension piece between boiler and thumper to lift the thumper up a bit.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Fri May 05, 2017 10:17 am

My original thought was to just run the pipe all the way down to the bottom of the boiler and use the entire boiler as a downcomer cup but then I'd need to use a stainless pipe to prevent corrosion. So I stuck with the cup but when the boilers chockers part of its submerged.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Fri May 05, 2017 11:34 am

:text-+1: Warra,my cup has been semi submerged when maxing out boiler load and has never been a problem.Lately I have been using the thumper on neutral spirit runs with 5plates and a packed section as well wich seems ta give the spirit a more smooth taste,I load the thumper with water and the boiler with stripped low wines from a 150lt ferment and put it into full reflux for an hour or so until the temp in the thumper stops dropping ,to load the thumper and then start collection as normal ,seems ta compress heads and tails real well giving me a bigger hearts cut.cheers hillzabilly
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Fri May 05, 2017 11:03 pm

Gents it's finished.

Will get some pics up tomorrow of it.

Also gonna break it in with a rum wash. Looking forward to learning.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Sat May 06, 2017 11:40 am

Image
Image

Todays the day it gets its first bath.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Sat May 06, 2017 3:48 pm

When building I would advise on doing a sacrificial run of alcohol or at least vinegar or citric acid solution first ta clean out any shit from construction and make sure everything works ,before putting any good stuff thru it,and if there is any probs like leaks you can sort them out befor it cost you a load of good stuff.cheers hillzabilly ;-)
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Sat May 06, 2017 4:47 pm

hillzabilly wrote:When building I would advise on doing a sacrificial run of alcohol or at least vinegar or citric acid solution first ta clean out any shit from construction and make sure everything works ,before putting any good stuff thru it,and if there is any probs like leaks you can sort them out befor it cost you a load of good stuff.cheers hillzabilly ;-)


Cheers hillzabilly, vinegar and sac alco run down, just loaded it up with 42L of rum wash in boiler and put 6L in the thumper to see how it carries flavour through.

Nothing worse that losing good product because of a fixable problem.

Running 3 plates on top of the thumper with a sight glass between the boiler and thumper that gives me a visual on how the thumpers downcomer cup is performing.

Will get pics and a report up on how it performs.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Sat May 06, 2017 5:00 pm

Nice work,I put about 400gr roll of copper mesh in mine ta help with sulpide removal and taste over all,nothin like haveing a bit more copper with all that stainless steel,how much power ya throwing at it ,I run 3600wt with mine on a 80lt boiler,happy thumpin.cheers hillzabilly :happy-partydance:
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Sun May 07, 2017 4:57 pm

Heres the config I ran it in.
Image

hillzabilly wrote:Nice work,I put about 400gr roll of copper mesh in mine ta help with sulpide removal and taste over all,nothin like haveing a bit more copper with all that stainless steel, I've stuck a small roll of copper mesh into the 2" riser, however will remove this for further runs and replace it with a 4" roll in the extension just above the thumper before the first plate.

how much power ya throwing at it ,I run 3600wt with mine on a 80lt boiler, Was playing around with different power settings trying to find the sweet spot, started at 3000W and moved up to 3600W, however I found I had to power down twice throughout the run to re prime the downcomer as the boil vapour just blew through it (ended up just leaving it after the 3rd time, didnt seem to affect the run just the amount of liquid transferred from the boiler to the thumper). Got a few hypotheses as to why this happened that I want to test out.
1st being the depth of liquid held in the thumper was greater than I allowed for in the downcomer cup depth, going to try a smaller liquid level for the thumper on the next run.
2nd the copper mesh in the riser tube restricted airflow following a puke.
3rd the liquid in the downcomer cup was boiling throughout the run.
4th riser and downcomer are quite close to one another, vigorous bubble activity may have affected the downcomers ability to draw liquid down.
It could be either of these or a combination having additive effects.

Gonna make a few changes to see how it reacts

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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Sun May 07, 2017 7:47 pm

Have ya got detail of the top of ya riser,is there a good gap between the riser and the top of the bubble cap,also I would have slotted the bubble cap instead of cutting out the little vee's ya have ,for me the slots or vee's area should be equal to the area of 2inch circle because thats what ya riser is ,these are both points of resistance ta vapour if the area is too small ,it puts more pressure on the downcomer,I would also try a smaller cup on the down comer .I ended up doing half a dozen runs with mine, makeing adjustments to get it working with sugar wash before doing rum ,wich is well known ta be prone ta pukeing problems ,another option is ta strip wash and then use the thumper on spirit runs with 50% wash and 50% feints from your last run. :text-+1: to removeing the mesh from the riser another possible point of restriction.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Mon May 08, 2017 6:00 pm

hillzabilly wrote:Have ya got detail of the top of ya riser,is there a good gap between the riser and the top of the bubble cap,
Image Image
Fairly decent amount of clearance, the bubble cap screws down but stops a few mm shy of the nut

also I would have slotted the bubble cap instead of cutting out the little vee's ya have ,for me the slots or vee's area should be equal to the area of 2inch circle because thats what ya riser is I've cut more smaller vee's in the end of the bubble cap to correct this, no calculations carried out just cut and continue ,these are both points of resistance ta vapour if the area is too small ,it puts more pressure on the downcomer,I would also try a smaller cup on the down comer If you don't mind me asking whats the thinking behind making a smaller down comer cup? Do you mean diameter wise or length wise? I would think that making a shorter 2" cup would reduce its ability to resist pressure from the vapour trying to pass through.

I'm looking at it this way, the boiler exerts an equal pressure on both the downcomer and the riser at the same time. The down comer cup when primed allows me to direct the vapour up into the riser as it is now the path of least resistance. As the run continues and the thumper starts to fill, the liquid bath depth increases it also increases the back pressure on the down comer cup, when the depth of the bath finally exceeds the depth of the down comer cup it will now divert flow through the cup.
In order for the down comer to correctly work I would need to ensure that the cup depth is greater than the thumper bath depth.

Hope that makes sense. Does that sounds right?


.I ended up doing half a dozen runs with mine, makeing adjustments to get it working with sugar wash before doing rum ,wich is well known ta be prone ta pukeing problems Ha yeah kinda wished I did this now but had the rum wash sitting there staring at me,another option is ta strip wash and then use the thumper on spirit runs with 50% wash and 50% feints from your last run. :text-+1: to removeing the mesh from the riser another possible point of restriction.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:I've pissed the copper roll off, going to replace it with 4" copper roll just before the 1st plate
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Tue May 09, 2017 3:26 am

I wouldn't stress your downcomer or cup. It looks good. Better than mine. :sad:
For the pressure to prefer the downcomer once its filled the cup it needs to push an entire pipefull of liquid up the pipe to overcome it. Size of the cup isn't crucial (within reason) as that's just a liquid reservoir that's at rest (relatively) and not doing any work. Size (volume) of the pipe is as that's where the weight of the liquid (up and down) you're using to prevent the pressure overcoming the downcomer kicks in.
I use a 1" pipe for the downcomer which is roughly the same volume of the riser (between the riser and the cap) so it will hold similar displacement as the cap. Haven't had any problems yet.

Edit. Btw, I believe the triangles slots are good for products that have a tendency to puke but fine slots are usually preferred to keep the bubbles as small as possible to get better area for heat transfer. Why most people use 1 mm slots.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Tue May 09, 2017 11:34 am

Your theory about the cup length is the same as I had ,fact for me was I started with a cup size like yours and it didn't work that well,and after I shortened it by half it worked much better,go figure about theory hey !.With the top of ya riser I would cut a few of those little vee's out around the top ,or just trim the edge down at an angle by 10-15mm either side of ya mounting plate,were ya can to make sure there is no restriction there as well .cheers hillzabilly ;-)
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Tue May 09, 2017 11:59 am

Also I allways load the full volume of the liquid in the thumper at the start of a run,wether its wash feints or water ,if you start with no liquid or half in the thumper, it will take an hour or so of full reflux befor its up to level, and any liquid will be replenishing ya down comer cap liquid wich could boil dry in that time making it easy for vapour ta go that way ,anyhoo keep trying and you will get there.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Wed May 10, 2017 4:10 pm

Cheers boys, gonna take ya tweaks and run settings into consideration on the next run. Rerunning the previous rum back through the still, thumpers going to have a 5L capacity and will load it with feints and leftover wash from previous run.

Will keep yas posted.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Sat May 13, 2017 4:44 pm

2nd thumper run this time with neutral.

Have removed the copper roll from the thumper riser, cut the top edges of the riser down slightly to give it more breathing room for the vapour to pass out of the riser into the bubble cap. Also drilled 4 more holes into the bottom of the downcomer to help liquid transfer into the cup.

Config:
Boiler - sightglass - thumper - 5 plates - 300mm copper mesh packed section - deflag - blockhead - RC - parrot

Boiler loaded with 4.5L of 95ish%, water added to bring it down to 20-25% then an extra 5 litres of water added to ensure that the elements stay covered.
Thumper fitted with 7L volume downcomer and loaded with 7L of water.

Currently all plates are loaded and thumper is thumping along, downcomer cup is working as planned. Going to leave it reflux for 45 to 60 mins to load the thumper up with alcohol then start the run.
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Sat May 13, 2017 5:01 pm

Persistence will pay off for those willing ta spend the effort,hope all goes well mate.cheers hillzabillly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Sun May 14, 2017 10:44 pm

The alco load was a 9L mix of previous kale neutral low wines and feints. Approx alco yield 4.5L of 95ish%.

Heat up on 4200W then dropped back to 3000W once all plates were loaded and thumper was charging.

Took first 300ml as fores, quite a large fores cut but only going to be removing early heads. Kept collecting in 300ml increments,

Since still learning how to drive this new beast I started on 3000W taking 300ml increments at 2.5L/hr which held steady at 94%, over the next few jars I increased power to 3600W and nudged it up to 3.5L/hr which held steady at 93% for the remainder of the run. Once tails arrived and the abv dropped sharply, largest fall from 81% to 20% in the space on 300ml. I'm going to continue to experiment with how fast it will run with the thumper, I suspect there will be a relationship with the amount of alco loaded into the thumper and the take off rate. Fingers crossed it can replenish at a decent rate and give me some higher L/hr figures. Will keep notes and see how it plays out.

The compression of the fractions was quite impressive from 4.5L of 95% I've kept 3L of 93-92%, this was on very tight cuts I could have easily included a few extra jars into the hearts cut but I want quality as its going to be base neutral for a trial gin on the carter head.

So far very happy with the thumper just need to sort out a drain as I can imagine having to continue to siphon hot dunder is gonna get real boring real quick.

Cheers guys
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