Thumper build questions

Parrots beaks, valves, condensers, and all other hardware for stilling.

Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:28 pm

Hi stillers,

Building a thumper for my still and wanting to see if I'm on the right track. Feel free to throw your 2c in.

It holds approx 24-25L total volume. Spent weeks trying to find an appropriately sized pipe off cut or vessel to build it from but ended up shortening up a 50L keg. Over sizing it for the eventual boiler upgrade down the track.

The thumper isn't finished yet, still need to put a sight glass port into it and sort out the internals.

At the moment I have it mocked up to see how it works for clearances etc. The 140mm 4" spacer tube on top of thumper normally sits between the boiler and thumper however my PC makes contact with the thumper and needs a little extra clearance for the parrot to fit on. I don't mind having the spacer where it now sits, however I'd feel better having an extra spacer between the boiler and thumper in case of puking which has happened a few times mainly due to me running things on the red line in regards to capacity (hence the need/want for a larger boiler down the track).
Image
Image

At present I'm planning on making a thumper plate up with a riser height that will accommodate up to a maximum of 20L volume, then use interchangeable down comers of different lengths to control the actual working volume of the thumper depending on the wash charge. Or should I just set the whole thing up for a rigid 20L?

Riser I'm thinking 2" to 2.5" then an slightly larger pipe for the outer. Downcomer will be 3/4" to 1".

Not 100% on how I plan to drain the thumper yet, was thinking along the lines of using a weep hole much like on my bubble cap plates, however with cleaning the still out thats gonna take a long time with just a little 1mm hole draining liquid off. Perhaps if I put a small 1/2" external drain near the bottom of the thumper. Drain the majority of left over thump charge then let the weep hole deal with the rest?

Another issue I can see is if using a downcomer with a cup on the end, I'd need to size the volume it will hold to compensate for the extra liquid head pressure the gas will have to overcome in the thumper so that it doesn't bypass up the downcomer instead of the riser. Does this sound about right?
nuddy
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:55 pm
equipment: 2" bokabob
4" blockhead bubbler build in progress

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby Zak Griffin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:11 pm

Warramungas and hillzabilly are the blokes to talk to re: big inline thumpers :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Looks like a good start! I'd put a sight glass on the thumper so you can see how full it is etc.
Zak Griffin
Lifetime Member
 
Posts: 6832
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Radelaide
equipment: "The Heart of Gold" - 4" Bubbler - finally bubbling!
"Zaphod" - 3" Pot - retired
"Agrajag" - 6" Bubbler - midlife crisis build?

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby rumdidlydum » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:49 pm

:text-+1:
Run an external drain through a stainless tap :handgestures-thumbupleft:
rumdidlydum
 
Posts: 2619
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:20 pm
Location: CQ
equipment: The infamous Illuminated chicken leg boiler, Rum glass and other bits and bobs

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby andybear » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:23 pm

Would puking still be a problem if it's going into a thumper?
Good thinking for the down comer, it's the liquid head that you will need to overcome. That is if your thumper is 100mm deep you'll need a cup or U tube that is over 100mm long. I'd love to see some diagrams of your build plans.
andybear
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:51 pm
Location: Melbourne, Western Suburbs Area.
equipment: T500 has been retired and the 4" glass bubbler, has been christened. With 50 litre inverted keg, two 2400watt elements, 100mm sight glass and 100mm column connection and 1/2" drain. And all resting on a hexagonal frame with lockable castor wheels.

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby bluc » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:35 pm

Looks like the ducks nuts. Hillzabillies is very similar :handgestures-thumbupleft:
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:47 pm

I made the riser full height and use a socket soldered onto the plate and different lengths of downcomer 1" tube.
It allows anything from about a 2" depth without the riser tube in the socket (a liter or so) so it performs like a standard plate to 25 liters so I could use it like a standard thumper on a pot. It has an external valve on a drain so if the 25 liters is a little low I can drain a bit out on the run.
Works fine but I don't have enough runs under my belt to give solid advice on running one.
Only thing I've noticed is I need to run a teeny bit of reflux or it doesn't fill in pot and thumper mode. Due to direct heating from below I think.
You can get a short 100-200 mm 2" length of tube and another 2" triclamp and seal to get your PC out a bit from your thumper. Just put it between the top elbow and column connection.
:text-+1: I'm with zak with saying it definitely needs a sight glass so you can monitor the level in it however you intend to run it.
warramungas
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Nor Perth
equipment: 180 litre fermenter x 2
30 liter boiler
PDA-1
2" four plate modular bubbler
2" one meter long LM column
110 liter boiler with 25 liter (max) inline thumper
4" x 4 plate bubble cap still

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby bluc » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:55 pm

I have been wondering about this design from a safety point of view. If you have a bubbler on top with active reflux filling it what abv is the thumper liquid? below the safe 40% threshold? Especially if the downcommer is set to hold 10-15l spirit.. same thought for traditional thumper setups..
bluc
Site Donor
 
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:47 pm
Location: sunshine coast
equipment: 2" pot with 2" shotty 400mm long 5x 1/2" on a t500 boiler.
50l keg boiler 4" still mount 4" sight glass 1" drain..
4 plate 4" bubbler, 600mm packed section

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:48 pm

I found 10lt volume works best for me,with more volume than 15lt I found that the downcomer did not allways work well,riser of 2inchs on mine feeding a single 4inch bubble cap,downcomer of 1inch below plate and 1 1/2inch above plate with a 2inch cup about 3-4inchs long over the end of the downcomer,I would do a full scale drawing of the internals so ya get a more accurate idear how it will all fit together ,and we may be able ta give better advice,I added a sight glass over the downcomer so I could fill the downcomer cup befor a run and also keep an eye on things dureing a run .cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
hillzabilly
 
Posts: 1509
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: PERTH WEST AUSSIE
equipment: 10 gallon OZARK pot still ,2inch and 3inch Nixon Stone coloum stills ,10 and 18 gal beer keg boilers,5gal thumper keg.And the one and only 4" Five Star Southern Cross .

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:54 am

bluc wrote:I have been wondering about this design from a safety point of view. If you have a bubbler on top with active reflux filling it what abv is the thumper liquid? below the safe 40% threshold? Especially if the downcommer is set to hold 10-15l spirit.. same thought for traditional thumper setups..


All good. Its no different from having a top plate at +80%. Its only steam heated after all and not directly heated by an element or flame.
warramungas
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Nor Perth
equipment: 180 litre fermenter x 2
30 liter boiler
PDA-1
2" four plate modular bubbler
2" one meter long LM column
110 liter boiler with 25 liter (max) inline thumper
4" x 4 plate bubble cap still

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:39 pm

Just finished putting the 4" sight glass onto the thumper.

Warras - using a s/s socket and screwing in different length down comer pieces is what I was thinking. Glad to see that you've had success with it. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Hillzabilly - do you have a weep hole in your downcomer cap? or do you have to manually drain it off?

Will bust CAD out and get some plans drawn up for you guys to check over and see if what I'm making will work. Gonna give the brain a good old think.
nuddy
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:55 pm
equipment: 2" bokabob
4" blockhead bubbler build in progress

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:39 pm

Never used weep holes myself,I just manually drain it,and when I use the thumper as a boil ball(when stripping rum washes mostly) without internals the drain goes back down into the boiler so any puke does not make it past to plates or condencer.cheers hillzabilly
hillzabilly
 
Posts: 1509
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: PERTH WEST AUSSIE
equipment: 10 gallon OZARK pot still ,2inch and 3inch Nixon Stone coloum stills ,10 and 18 gal beer keg boilers,5gal thumper keg.And the one and only 4" Five Star Southern Cross .

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:25 pm

My socket is push fit copper and I put a couple of wraps of Teflon tape around the bottom so its a snug fit. It was originally able to be deconstructed down to all its components pieces but I found it leaked too much (only thing that's precision with me is glass to mouth) so soldered in the riser and downcomer socket. The bubble cap and downcomer cup are still bolted on though.

I can drain all but a liter or so out of it. I syphon the last tiny bit with a bit of nylon tube.
warramungas
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Nor Perth
equipment: 180 litre fermenter x 2
30 liter boiler
PDA-1
2" four plate modular bubbler
2" one meter long LM column
110 liter boiler with 25 liter (max) inline thumper
4" x 4 plate bubble cap still

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Mon May 01, 2017 12:22 pm

Got some plans roughed out on CAD.
Still don't know too much about head pressure, but would this work for say a 10L height downcomer?

Image

Gonna have a 1/2" drain coming out of the ferrule side wall with a s/s ball valve on the end.
The downcomer is going to be a s/s socket that various lengths of downcomer will screw into. I'm thinking 5L, 7.5L and 10L capacities to start off with.

I'm thinking of putting a small 1mm or smaller weep hole in the base of the downcomer cup. I'd like it to free drain ever so slightly and I don't imagine it will impede performance of the thumper. Also thinking I might put a weep hole through the downcomer socket flush with the top of the plate so that the remaining liquid underneath the drain can drain off.

How does that sound?
nuddy
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:55 pm
equipment: 2" bokabob
4" blockhead bubbler build in progress

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Mon May 01, 2017 4:29 pm

Firstly ya cannot run a liquid level higher than ya riser inside your bubble cap with out problems of it wanting ta syphon back down and downcomer flow problems,and if ya put a weep hole in your downcomer cap then you will not get the liquid lock ya need at start up to make sure your vapour does not go up your downcomer and stop the things ability to work and hold a steady liquid level ,I allways fill the 2inch cup on mine at the start of each run with water by pouring it down the downcomer from a 2inch view port mounted on top of the thumper .cheers hillzabilly ;-)
hillzabilly
 
Posts: 1509
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: PERTH WEST AUSSIE
equipment: 10 gallon OZARK pot still ,2inch and 3inch Nixon Stone coloum stills ,10 and 18 gal beer keg boilers,5gal thumper keg.And the one and only 4" Five Star Southern Cross .

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Mon May 01, 2017 5:31 pm

Unless you're keeping th space above foe something (gin basket?) I'd run the riser as high as I can. Then you can pick a higher volume later on if you want.

Edit: I run a 30 liter as I one day want to try using it as a doubler. Reflux all the alcohol into the thumper until its full (15-20ish liters @ 60-65% like a high power strip run) then run it out of the thumper like a spirit run. Save some f'n about I hope.
warramungas
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Nor Perth
equipment: 180 litre fermenter x 2
30 liter boiler
PDA-1
2" four plate modular bubbler
2" one meter long LM column
110 liter boiler with 25 liter (max) inline thumper
4" x 4 plate bubble cap still

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Mon May 01, 2017 5:50 pm

The riser and down comer heights were just examples, would never run liquid level above the riser.

Was just too lazy to change it in CAD.

Okay so scrapping the downcomer cap weephole but keeping the weep hole through the downcomer socket. If I made the downcomer cup a screw on assembly that I can prime from the view port for the run, then unscrew the cap to drain it after.
nuddy
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:55 pm
equipment: 2" bokabob
4" blockhead bubbler build in progress

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Wed May 03, 2017 11:56 am

Also after measureing the length of the downcomer pipe below the plate on mine ,your length of 110mm may be a little short ,mine is 175mm long I would go for at least 150mm long as I know that length works and I would definitely make your cup from 2inch for the same reason,how ya prime the cup is not important as long as ya do,could also be done from the 4inch port above befor ya stack your plates on top,my cup screws on so your idear would work there to.The biggest problem for me was figuring out how ta put it all together and what ta weld and when,I also put a cup and spout on top of the bubble cap to direct reflux as far away from the downcomer as possible. cheers hillzabilly ;-)
hillzabilly
 
Posts: 1509
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: PERTH WEST AUSSIE
equipment: 10 gallon OZARK pot still ,2inch and 3inch Nixon Stone coloum stills ,10 and 18 gal beer keg boilers,5gal thumper keg.And the one and only 4" Five Star Southern Cross .

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby nuddy » Wed May 03, 2017 4:29 pm

Cheers Hillzabilly,
Added a little extra length to the downcomer length and cup.

This is where it sits at the moment, will give me 10L volume in the thumper.
Downcomer (thumper side) screws into socket, downcomer cup screws onto end of downcomer (boiler side).

The downcomer cup will be in contact with the liquid in the boiler at this length. Will active heating of this be a problem?
Image

Going to be meeting a few people tonight to see if they can shed some knowledge on gas/liquid head pressures, might help further refine how I build it.
nuddy
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:55 pm
equipment: 2" bokabob
4" blockhead bubbler build in progress

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby warramungas » Wed May 03, 2017 10:10 pm

I would be careful with a weep hole anywhere in the plate. Some swear by them but many more swear at them. Not a huge issue draining it out by siphoning or a built in drain.
In fact most times my thumper syphons itself pretty much dry when I drain the boiler out.
warramungas
 
Posts: 1436
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:38 pm
Location: Nor Perth
equipment: 180 litre fermenter x 2
30 liter boiler
PDA-1
2" four plate modular bubbler
2" one meter long LM column
110 liter boiler with 25 liter (max) inline thumper
4" x 4 plate bubble cap still

Re: Thumper build questions

Postby hillzabilly » Thu May 04, 2017 11:31 am

Cup length of 100mm will be fine with the tube 150-175 more than enough,and I would offset the cup mounting to down comer tube towards the center of the colomn so you could fit a glass tee or short extension underneath your thumper ,if ya worried about it touching wash,with the bigger boiler 80-100lt that's probably not going ta be as much of a problem as with the 50lt keg ya have now,and if ya fabricating a boiler just make it a little higher to compensate.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:
hillzabilly
 
Posts: 1509
Images: 0
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:18 pm
Location: PERTH WEST AUSSIE
equipment: 10 gallon OZARK pot still ,2inch and 3inch Nixon Stone coloum stills ,10 and 18 gal beer keg boilers,5gal thumper keg.And the one and only 4" Five Star Southern Cross .

Next

Return to Accessories



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

x