Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

Posted: **Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:15 pm**

I nearly derailed this thread.

I've been using a PID controller to run my still.
I always found it easy to run the Mac 4 using these directions.
I just wanted to do this because I can :teasing-neener:

I know the thread where it say you can't run a still by temperature and I agree that you can't manually.
I prefer to think of this as running the still by controlling reflux.

The PID controls a solenoid valve on the RC with the help of a temperature probe.
I think I put my probe in the wrong place compared others (just above the RC) but I think it doesn't really matter once you know your temperatures.

When setting it up you set the controller temp to below ambient, this starts water running through the RC as it is trying to cool to below ambient.
Next you set the temperature to what you think the foreshots will come off at. This is a learning curve because every still is different, different materials, different placing of the temp probe etc.

Once the temp get up to where the foreshots run off the solenoid valve clicks on and off to increase reflux and hold the temperature steady.
The beauty of this is that when the foreshots are depleted the output stops as the still is back in full reflux.
Once this happens you set the controller to your heads cut and repeat the process, then set to hearts and collect them and then turn it off and collect tails (if you want to).

The thing I have noticed using this, is that at the end of each fraction the still keeps increasing the reflux until the still is equalised. This seams to compress the fractions even more, squeezing the fraction out. So much so that I don't think I will keep any feigns anymore.

One thing about using a controller is that you still have to decide by taste and smell where to set your fraction temps. Although because of the compression I have found this a lot easier. On my still the last jar at 78.3c is sweet hearts but the first jar at 78.4c stinks of tails. (On others they are in the 80'sc)

I'd be interested in peoples thoughts on using a controller??

Posted: **Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:43 pm**

I like the idea tipsy ......if the technology is there ,use it .Guess it could be argued that it will make you a lazy distiller .....could you still run the still without it ?.

I like that you can dial in a temp and see what the still will spit out ...that is a great learning curve ....each 0.1deg will fill a different jar ?

What kind of spirits do you run through it ?

Did I see an OD controller in one of your other pics ? This was based on a Swede design ? Guessing there is a bit of experience developing with this process.

Posted: **Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:51 pm**

Yummyrum wrote:
Did I see an OD controller in one of your other pics ?

Everytime I see those two letters I get this extremely sharp stabbing pain between my shoulder blades, I guess he could never get over the fact I needed to tell him how to stop his parrot surging all those years ago :))

Posted: **Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:16 pm**

Yummyrum wrote:Guess it could be argued that it will make you a lazy distiller .....could you still run the still without it ?.

It could be argued that Yum, but in truth, you could argue that about running a bubbler anyway

Yummyrum wrote:I like that you can dial in a temp and see what the still will spit out ...that is a great learning curve ....each 0.1deg will fill a different jar ?

Well each still is different but mine equalizes at a certain temperature and foreshots come off just before that.
Heads has a slightly "wider" temperature
Hearts is very wide.
I used to collect hearts to 78.2c and leave the next jar as a buffer but soon realised the 78.3c jar was as clean as the rest of the hearts.
The 78.4c jar is stinky as, but as I say the still just completely stops unless you dial that temp in.

Yummyrum wrote:What kind of spirits do you run through it ?

Both Whiskey and Vodkas but the temps vary slightly, if this is due to the packed section I do not know.
Cards on the table I've only just tested it in whiskey mode using only 3 plates (1/2 pils malt 1/2 smoked malt), but using it with Vodka 1/2 dozen times the results are consistant.

Yummyrum wrote:Did I see an OD controller in one of your other pics ? This was based on a Swede design ? Guessing there is a bit of experience developing with this process.

It was made by OD, I don't know if it was a Swede design, I really would like to keep out of cross forum politics and just talk about controllers in general :romance-kisscheek:
(I don't know any technical shit anyway) :))

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:24 am**

And with that..... My next project was born lol
I would like to here some more results after you have done some more whiskey's :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Also could you throw up a link or photo of the solenoid you are using please :-B
Cheers in advance

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:21 am**

Sounds like the E-ARC design?

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:56 pm**

bayshine wrote:Also could you throw up a link or photo of the solenoid you are using please :-B
Cheers in advance

Posted: **Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:13 pm**

So how do you run said setup?

Keep each 0.1 degree in a seperate jar? Then do your cuts after? :think:

Posted: **Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:39 am**

I did my cut jars in usual 200ml increments taking notes on what temperature they came off at.
I did a lot of tasting on the fly.
I actually ended up with a lot more cut jars because when the output of the still stopped I would swap out a cut jar. So I had a few jars with not much in them.

First run was a fuck up because I set my temperatures too high.
The second run I increased temps by 0.3 degrees and it worked well
Third run I had an idea where my temps were at so I could set temps pretty close to where they should be but fine tune to 0.1degree.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:45 pm**

Good to see the controller working so well :handgestures-thumbupleft: , have been watching some of the development chat on OD's systems elsewhere with interest.
SO so earlier in the week I ordered most of the stuff to put one of these boxes together, though Ill probably use a second PID to control heat up and shutdown for the boiler as per Swedes integrated controller Youtube clip (Love his steam injection water jacket) and maybe run the RC water supply via PID controlled pump to avoid the clicking. :-B

If you where doing this over again would you install the temp probe in the RC coolant outlet as some prefer or the vapor space above the RC which at first glance is the more logical place to put it?

Swedes clip is worth a watch for some hints if you haven't seen it.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:40 pm**

Who is going to come up with the Arduino still controller that's next. :-B

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:57 pm**

Who is going to come up with the Arduino still controller

Its tempting. I have a couple of Olmex PIC development boards siting around doing nothing but that kind of project has a habit of taking 10 times as long and costing 10 times as expected then I also have a habit of never finishing that kind of thing, (unless someone is paying) :D

At least with the off the shelf PIDs it will happen when I get the time to put it together.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:20 am**

My temp probe is set up below the reflux condenser. I find the on/off action causes the set temp to be over/undershot very regularly. Are you guys experiencing that? What would you suggest to overcome it?

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:14 am**

badbird wrote:If you where doing this over again would you install the temp probe in the RC coolant outlet as some prefer or the vapor space above the RC which at first glance is the more logical place to put it?

I not really sure. I have seen others have the temp probe at the highest point in the vapour tube.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:16 am**

wiifm wrote:My temp probe is set up below the reflux condenser. I find the on/off action causes the set temp to be over/undershot very regularly. Are you guys experiencing that? What would you suggest to overcome it?

:-? I'd be thinking that you need it after the RC. How much does it overshoot by?

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:35 pm**

tipsy wrote:
wiifm wrote:My temp probe is set up below the reflux condenser. I find the on/off action causes the set temp to be over/undershot very regularly. Are you guys experiencing that? What would you suggest to overcome it?

:-? I'd be thinking that you need it after the RC. How much does it overshoot by?

It depends on the flow I have set on the reflux condenser water flow meter - I have only experimented on a couple of runs so far.

In rough terms, if I set the flow at 2.0L/m, it can overcool by nearly 1 degree, then swing back nearly a degree on the other side of the set temp after the solenoid kicks in. If I reduce the flow to around 0.2L/m, it could be 0.2 degrees either side, then later in the run it can sit 0.4 high and take ages to get to the set temp.

I haven't seen a flow meter on anyone else's setup using solenoid valves, but my reflux condenser may be a little oversized, so decided to install one.

I am considering setting up 2 outflows from the reflux condenser (both metered) with one of them being on all the time until tails. My thinking is that if I get constant flow, slightly less than required to maintain target temp, then the second switched flow will not cause so much over/under shooting.

Then again, it may be a setting on the PID.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:46 pm**

Have you got your flow regulator before or after the solenoid and do you use a pressure limiting valve ?

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:45 pm**

I am just a Newbie here but being a HVAC tech for 20 years I have a few ideas that would be better to control flow than just solenoid valves.
If this was my system I would look and modulating flow control valves. These take an analogue 1 - 10 v signal. a 3/4 size valve can control flow ( based on mains pressure) between 0.1 LPH to around 15 LPH. in .01 volt increments. ( 100 increments total). If you use a pressure limiting valve before it you will have very precise control. These will run you anywhere from $120 - $300 depending on quality. I would recommend a course filter inline before the valve also.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:52 pm**

Plus the circuitry to drive it, sound like another job for the Arduino. ;-)

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:05 pm**

pulsetech wrote:I am just a Newbie here but being a HVAC tech for 20 years I have a few ideas that would be better to control flow than just solenoid valves.
If this was my system I would look and modulating flow control valves. These take an analogue 1 - 10 v signal. a 3/4 size valve can control flow ( based on mains pressure) between 0.1 LPH to around 15 LPH. in .01 volt increments. ( 100 increments total). If you use a pressure limiting valve before it you will have very precise control. These will run you anywhere from $120 - $300 depending on quality. I would recommend a course filter inline before the valve also.

Yeah what he said

Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

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