cooling tank info

[rumsponge]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I am in the planning stage for a recirculating cooling system for my *soon to be delivered* neutralizer. :-D
I dont have a swimming pool, rainwater tank, boat, or room for an IBC so active cooling is the way to go I think. The largest reservoir I can fit is approximately ~200 L.
Have seen some very clever ideas and designs and am currently favouring the Aircon/car heat exchanger or an evaporative cooling tower design.

Now here are the questions:
- For any still, whats the highest recommended (safe) cooling water inlet temperature for PC/RC ? I assume this will depend on the design of the condenser/flow rate etc. , so if this is too vague how about a neutralizer with 2 x 2.4kW heating elements (50L boiler, only one element used after reflux is reached) ?

- what do other neutralizer users use for recirculating cooling water ?

- evaporative cooling wont work very well with high humidiity and heat exchanger wont work as efficiently at high ambient temperature. Today we had 37C and 70% humidity in SE QLD. Would you run a still with recirculating water system under these conditions ? :think:
Cheers,
rs

[bluc]

I am in se qld i use a 200l drum which is inside a shed. Average water temp at start of day is 25.

Without cooling the return water i get two strips 30l batchs then a spirit run using a 2"pot. I now have an evaporative air con setup to cool the water in the drum it slowed the drum heat up by 6 degrees over two strips then a spirit run.
I reakon that i could squeeze a 3rd strip out of it now. Its also cools the shed a bit which is a nice bonus.
Real humid days like the last few probably wouldnt be as good but yes i still use it on real hot humid days.On an average summer day it works a treat.

Would be easy to rig up a bigger evaporative screen for better results, my aircon would be flat out having half square metre of screen surface area.

[RuddyCrazy]

I used to use a 200 litre olive drum as my cooling setup along with a 12 volt flojet pump and later in the run found the water had heated up a fair bit. Now I moved my gear upto my shed I use a 5,000 gal tank and the same 12 volt flojet pump. To say the increase in yield is better it's like WOW got 5 litres of low wines out that TPW that had been sitting for 6-8 months with the end ABV @50%. where before I was lucky to get 3-1/2 litres.

[GroggyAl]

I cannot comment on the neutralisers cooling requirements but I run a Boka at 2400w for hours on a recirculating water system with very little total water volume.

I didn't have the room for an IBC so I used an old AC condenser unit. It's neat, tidy and only a fraction of the size of an IBC (see my Backshed Boka build thread for details).

They are easy to obtain from the scrap yards or an AC installer. They are always replacing/ upgrading them. My tank is only just big enough for the 350w submersible pump I use and the tank fits within the unit.

My unit easily holds the water temperature within one degree of ambient. The last run I did was at 37 degrees C ambient temperature. No problems at all.
I am currently building a new 4" plate still and I am confident it will handle it fine even at the higher ambient temperatures. I am hoping to change back to a smaller pump as I should have less head restrictions with the shotgun type RC and PC.

[rumsponge]

Thanks guys,
bluc, how did you make the aircon unit evaporative ? put a wet towel over the heat exchanger ? do you have pictures ?
What size heat exchanger do you use (in kW of the original AC unit?)
Cheers rs

[bluc]

Its one of the little evaporative coolers to start with. Had an inlet and outlet so it was easy to plumb. Not sure of cfm rating but it has about a 60cm fan on front.

[Psykamaholik]

I've found since going to a 200L drum of water from a 60L one that if I run the still properly I don't get any noticeable heat build up in the cooling water after 6 hours of use by which time I'm getting tails come through really slowly and it's time to turn it off

[bluc]

I've found since going to a 200L drum of water from a 60L one that if I run the still properly I don't get any noticeable heat build up in the cooling water after 6 hours of use by which time I'm getting tails come through really slowly and it's time to turn it off

How can you still for 6 hours and not heat the water up when only using 200l?

[Meatheadinc]

An active cooler is esential in a recirculating system.

Have a look about halfway down this thread..
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6973

Can post more info if anyones intetested.
This system will easly handle 4800w

[rumsponge]

Hi meat,
Actually your setup is the one I like most and trying to copy. More info / pictures would be much appreciated. Was it hard to rewire the fan electronics ? I assume it is a simple 240V fan. Not sure if you listed your pump details (watts).
Cheers, RS

[Psykamaholik]

I've found since going to a 200L drum of water from a 60L one that if I run the still properly I don't get any noticeable heat build up in the cooling water after 6 hours of use by which time I'm getting tails come through really slowly and it's time to turn it off

How can you still for 6 hours and not heat the water up when only using 200l?

I haven't actually got around to putting temperature sensors on any of it and was just feeling the temperature of the hoses with my hands, there may very well have been an increase, but I couldn't notice it. Compared to when I ran the 60L of cooling water which warmed up to a temperature you could use for your coffee/tea it's a significant improvement! :D

[GroggyAl]

Hi RS,
The older AC condenser fans are just a normal 240v electric motor. Mine draws 1/2amp (120w) but it came from quite a big AC unit. I was at the scrap yard last week and they had a dozen old AC units there. Most were inverter units so I'm not sure if the condenser fan uses a conventional induction motor or a DC motor. I stripped an evaporator unit from an inverter type AC and found the fan was a DC motor so I couldn't use it (not without fancy electronics anyway). ~x(

If you do intend using an old AC condenser unit, check what the fan motor is if the AC was an inverter type.
What type of pump do you intend using?

[Matt_Pl]

Hi guys,

Im about to experiment with my cooling setup in the NT during the wet season. I'll add pics when I get home but its a 220 picked onion drum through the RC/PC returning through an old oil radiator ( found on the scrap bin at work) and returns to the drum. There is a cooling fan on the radiator which is 240Vdc.

I live away from the Mrs so my setup is inside. Back in Port Lincoln I used to use a 1000litre IBC which didn't require any cooling for my 8hour + runs, but in the NT the ambient temperature is a lot higher.

Ive got 220 litres of wash to strip this weekend so I will let everyone know how it performs.

Cheers,

MP

[rumsponge]

Thanks groggy, I will try to avoid the inverter units ! I wasnt even aware that the newer ones run DC fans. My pump will be one of the submersible green shed thingies that have been circulating around here (ozito). not sure which power rating to go for but from the discussion here 350W may be too low (in some cases at least), but the 750W looks way to powerful from the specs, so I may end up going for the middle (~550W).

Matt, please let us know.

Cheers all,
RS

[GroggyAl]

RS, the scrap yard has told me I can take an old inverter unit to see if the condenser fan motor is a conventional AC induction motor or not. Will report back. For those with the electrical smarts a DC motor would be great for a temperature controlled cooling system. Unfortunately I am from the old school. :doh:

The 350w Ozito pump has plenty of flow rate but only 5m head. That's why some people that have long distances and a lot of restrictions in their lines have had to increase to the bigger pumps that have 7+m head.

I went for the Commercial Electric pump because their 350w pump had 10+m of head (with lower flow rate). Some of the big green sheds stock both brands.
My cooling system is just outside the back wall of my shed (friends think I have AC in the Shed). I am hoping that with a short distance and less restrictions in the reflux & Product condensers on my new build I can get away with an even smaller pump. The 350w submersible pump draws over one amp. I found a 3 speed reciculation pump that is less than 200w (on max) with over 4m head :dance:

Hope this helps

[Psykamaholik]

So due to a malfunction with my thermometer (somehow grew bubbles in it :wtf: ) last night I was forced to improvise and use my temp sensor prototype with LCD screen Ive been working on as my thermometer so I figured I'd put the second sensor on the cooling water and it seems I was telling stories in my last post about no noticeable temperature change with the 200L water drum.

Running for 7 hours the cooling water increased from 28*C to 37*C measured by having the probe taped to the outside of the inlet hose with a bit of insulation around it so as not to be affected by ambient air temp. Might be worth getting back onto a cooling method again :geek:

[WalterWhite]

That is still low Psyk
My 200L drum starts off at 22•c and only takes about three hours to get to 44•c at which point I switch to my second drum. I find it impossible to do more than one run so I am going to have to start looking for some sort of cooling solution

[Crusty]

It seems theres a few options of Ozito pumps. Which one are you guys using?
The only thing that concerns me is the 35deg maximum temp. I only have a single 220lt drum at this stage.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-780w-d ... p_p4818364
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-750w-c ... p_p4816359
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-750w-d ... p_p4816360
http://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-1000w- ... p_p4818365
The pump in the third link is the one I'm looking at for $129.00.

[Wobblyboot]

How much water will a bubbler use in an average 50l run? I use 3 220l drums for pot still, 1 full, 1 half full as backup, pump into empty1 during run. It always cools overnight and ready to use next day. I did think that to try and cool down water to reuse in same run would b an extra expense ....

[rumsponge]

wobbly, are you saying you only need one run 220L fill for 1 potstill run ? how long are your runs and what flow rate do you need to get full vapour knockdown ?
cheers, rs