Clearing agent before distilling

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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Mattq71 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:42 pm

Bundaboy wrote:
Mattq71 wrote:Either has been fine for me, but I mostly use it at room temperature.


Excellent, and now I know it exists I am finding it everywhere, the moral of the story is never ask advice from someone younger than yourself.


Ummm .... I think I am younger that you.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:14 pm

Mattq71 wrote:
Bundaboy wrote:
Mattq71 wrote:Either has been fine for me, but I mostly use it at room temperature.


Excellent, and now I know it exists I am finding it everywhere, the moral of the story is never ask advice from someone younger than yourself.


Ummm .... I think I am younger that you.


Almost certainly, but I was referring to a Coles staff member that told me they didn't stock gelatine (they do).

Today I asked a young IGA (there to get the gelatine) staff member where they'd moved the Darrell Lea range to (a belated Easter present for someone).
He'd never heard of Darrell Lea. Sigh...
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Mattq71 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:23 pm

but, did you get finally the gelatine ?
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:02 pm

Mattq71 wrote:but, did you get finally the gelatine ?


Yes, all you really need to know is that it is where the packet cake mixes are, who'd have thought you could make jelly out of it? ;-)

To be honest, I had known that gelatin (I know it as gelatin, but it is also known as gelatine) was a product of the knackery and I just assumed it was no longer a politically correct product and accepted that it was no longer stocked - so sue me, I am usually correct. ;-)

Thanks again for setting me straight.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:07 pm

Just for information's sake I have now 3 x 25L washes clearing with gelatin and one 25L with TurboClear (that I had left over from my airstill days) for comparison.

I have just read that gelatin doesn't work well with sugar washes (which FFV ostensibly is) so I am not as hopeful as I was, but we'll see.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby bluc » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:54 pm

If you want a good clearing agent try bentonite clay from home brew shop it makes wash crystal clear.. used in wine making. Is a type of clay dirt.

From memory think i rehydrated a teaspoon or two in water first then added to a 30l wash can be added during or after fermentation. If you add after fermentation give it a good stir up when added then leave overnight. If used during fermentation the yeast stirs it up. When I stuffed round making some ginger wine i used turbo clear I stopped that because of possible shellfish allergy problems. Gelatine. Didnt do much. Then bentonite which cleared to water like, in 12hrs.
Apparently if your not happy with the clearing you can stir it up again and try a second third etc time
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:34 pm

bluc wrote:If you want a good clearing agent try bentonite clay from home brew shop it makes wash crystal clear.. used in wine making. Is a type of clay dirt.

From memory think i rehydrated a teaspoon or two in water first then added to a 30l wash can be added during or after fermentation. If you add after fermentation give it a good stir up when added then leave overnight. If used during fermentation the yeast stirs it up. When I stuffed round making some ginger wine i used turbo clear I stopped that because of possible shellfish allergy problems. Gelatine. Didnt do much. Then bentonite which cleared to water like, in 12hrs.
Apparently if your not happy with the clearing you can stir it up again and try a second third etc time


Yes, I have been wanting to try bentonite for a while, alas I haven't found a good source for it. I know I can buy it online but that ends up being twice the price after shipping is added, and, of course there is the delay in receiving it. I can buy shed loads of it from my co-op but alas it's for building dams etc (I bought it for making green sand) and whilst the MDS is infuriatingly vague over it's use in food products the manufacturer has indicated to me that they cannot "comment" on it's suitability as a fining agent.

To be honest I really should just give it a go anyway I suppose, as after two distillations, it's difficult to see how it could retain any harmful content.

OTOH I have read somewhere that the difference in "food grade" and "non-food grade" bentonite is where it is stored, in particular exposure to such things as bird droppings.

I just wish I could get a second opinion ha ha.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:50 pm

MSDS I meant of course (you don't get much of a chance to correct your typos in here do you? ;-)).
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby bluc » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:52 pm

Do you have a local health food shop vitamin store or major chemist this mob sell it as a beuty product [url]Cj0KCQjwttbWBRDyARIsAN8zhbLL2QQgO6j4FtzIxBibXUgKN3sd3fWBGwn5G0GRxjzOocBVfLENzigaAnoaEALw_wcB[/url] others may too
Last edited by bluc on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby bluc » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:56 pm

Link doesnt work but check out chemists vitamin type supplement stores in your area.
Do you have a local homebrew shop? Buy a little pack try it see if going bulk is worth it to you?
Last edited by bluc on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:32 pm

bluc wrote:Link doesnt work but check out chemists vitamin type supplement stores in your area.
Do you have a local homebrew shop? Buy a little pack try it see if going bulk is worth it to you?


Nope my "local" homebrew is 100 km return trip away, but as it turns out, every time I have been up there (usually to go to Bunnings) they have been out of stock, and, of course, like many small HBS's they have very limited opening hours.

Even my chemist is a 50 km trip although I suppose that's at least a possibility.

OTOH my "local" supermarket (same place as chemist) has beer finings although that may not be any better than glycerin (for the same reasons).

I should say I live in a very nice small village of less than 2000 people. It has it's advantages and it's disadvantages.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Rolls912 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:16 pm

[quote="Bundaboy"][quote="bluc"]If you want a good clearing agent try bentonite clay from home brew shop it makes wash crystal clear.. used in wine making. Is a type of clay dirt.
Yes, I have been wanting to try bentonite for a while, alas I haven't found a good source for it. I know I can buy it online but that ends up being twice the price after shipping is added, and, of course there is the delay in receiving it. I can buy shed loads of it from my co-op but alas it's for building dams etc (I bought it for making green sand) and whilst the MDS is infuriatingly vague over it's use in food products the manufacturer has indicated to me that they cannot "comment" on it's suitability as a fining agent.
To be honest I really should just give it a go anyway I suppose, as after two distillations, it's difficult to see how it could retain any harmful content.

Bentonite - watch out for traces of lead.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:34 am

Rolls912 wrote:Bentonite - watch out for traces of lead.


Gulp
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:43 am

Bundaboy wrote:Just for information's sake I have now 3 x 25L washes clearing with gelatin and one 25L with TurboClear (that I had left over from my airstill days) for comparison.

I have just read that gelatin doesn't work well with sugar washes (which FFV ostensibly is) so I am not as hopeful as I was, but we'll see.


Just reporting back on that after 48 hours - total failure! :-(

The funny thing is, not even the turbo clear worked, in addition I had placed a 5L demijohn's worth, with the gelatin added, into the fridge and that hasn't cleared up all that much either, there is something funny going on here but the only thing I can think of is that there are not enough large particulates in the wash to drag the smaller particulates down - certainly there is a lot of yeast that has settled out but the wash is definitely not clear.

I am going shopping today so I will visit a few chemists to see if they stock bentonite.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby warramungas » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:59 am

Time is the best clearing agent.
My washes are clear as after a couple of weeks following fermentation.
Even clearer if you've got a fridge to cold crash them with.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:34 am

warramungas wrote:Time is the best clearing agent.
My washes are clear as after a couple of weeks following fermentation.
Even clearer if you've got a fridge to cold crash them with.


I tried that last time, after three weeks it hadn't changed (much). In addition it's extremely inconvenient to have four full fermenters sitting in the laundry getting in the way for that amount of time. I have a solution to that coming up but in the meantime...

I have tried small samples in the fridge and that does work well normally, alas it's not big enough for "serious work".

I should say though a LOT of yeast does drop out without a shadow of a doubt but the wash itself remains quite opaque.

One thing is for sure though - the clearer I get it the better the end product - there is no doubt at all about that for me.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:03 pm

Called in to my "not so local HBS" to find it has a new owner, and they had some bentonite.

Anyone have an opinion on how it is going to work with the washes now having gelatine or rurbo clear in them?
Should I stir up the sediment prior to adding the bentonite?
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby bluc » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 pm

Yes stir it up and rehydrate the bentonite before adding it :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Plumby » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 pm

It's never going to be as clear as water, if that's what your after.
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Re: Clearing agent before distilling

Postby Bundaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:35 pm

Plumby wrote:It's never going to be as clear as water, if that's what your after.


Nope, I am after what I get from cold crashing (can post pictures if anyone is interested) or at least somewhere in the vicinity.

OTOH when I was using the turbo yeasts + carbon + turbo clear I was approaching clear as water, and I am surprised the turbo clear was as ineffectual as it was in this case (sans carbon). However that was a pure sugar wash, and this is an FFV and I would prefer to keep some of the flavour of the bran in the wash in any case, but the problem is, what is causing the opacity? Yeast or the bran?

All I am after is the best possible product with what can be done with cost effective products, and, of course, it's all about the journey and trying as many techniques as possible.

Cheers mate.
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