Need a sanity check on AG whisky recipe

[Sparrow]

Gday all,

Following on from my last thread i bought a mash tun due to arrive friday, got a 30l guten in the end. Down the track will be more for brewing beer but for now it'll kill two birds and deal with whisky.

So next thing is planning a whisky. I'm thinking of kicking off with a medium peated single malt whisky, feels more daunting the more I look at it ! I'm not looking to clone anything but I'm aiming for maybe like in between ardbeg uigeadail and a glenfarclas. Planning on aging with heavy toasted dominoes that have been soaking in sherry. Might out some others on plain toasted or x corn whiskey dominoes. Then blend down the track.

For starters the bloke reckons despite being 30l the capacity is actually 40 litres so I can probably do a 30 litre wash. Not sure if he meant that before or after adding grain though? I want to make a 35-40 litre wash, high end might push it with puking in my 50l keg.

With grain I have no idea what's hype and what s real, but just from reading aboutgrains and what they impart I'm considering by weight:

25% bairds heavily peated
40% gladfields aurora
35% caramunich 3

As for how fine, I've heard 1- 1.1mm crush is good? Also that between 3-4 litres of water per kg of grain?

As for Yeast, I was thinking either 15-20gm safspirit malt or maybe a beer yeast that imparts fruity or spicy notes?

Not sure if I need a nutrient like I see some people use e.g. DAP? and whether i need some rice hulls?

Planning on doing maybe a couple of hours at 65 deg in the mash tun, unsure whether it needs to be taken higher for an almost boil? Then run through the wort chiller and into the fermenter.

I've got no idea if I'm over or under thinking it, it's be good if people could tell me what parts I'm missing or are just making no sense?

I've signed up with brewers friend but at this stage it may as well be written in Chinese cause I don't understand any of it! Haha

Cheers gents

[TasSpirits]

Hi Mate, I use 3L per KG, I would add some rice hulls and crush as fine as you can to improve efficiency. I don't mash out, but I do chill real quick, my thought on the grainbill is to ditch the expensive malts until you learn the unit, use a pale or pils malt to start with and get to know your tun, you can always blend later.

[Sparrow]

Hi Mate, I use 3L per KG, I would add some rice hulls and crush as fine as you can to improve efficiency. I don't mash out, but I do chill real quick, my thought on the grainbill is to ditch the expensive malts until you learn the unit, use a pale or pils malt to start with and get to know your tun, you can always blend later.

Thanks for the advice mate, so with rice hulls I'll be able to ground it as fine as I like?

Thanks for the advice re. Starting with cheap malt, probably not a bad idea. How long will malted grain keep fresh for roughly if I buy a fair bit?

Everything else seems semi reasonable?

[TasSpirits]

The grain will keep for a while if sealed in a airtight container, if im not going to use it fast I vacpac it, I also only buy Malt when my HBS gets a fresh shipment in. If I can I will mash 25kg in 2-4 days, milling it each mash, for the finest crack on my mill I use 4 big handfuls of hulls per 6kg of grain. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[tipsy]

Don't know much about a Guten but if it works like a Braumeister you really don't want a fine crush.

My 2cents
Crush at 1.2mm
Don't worry about rice hulls
Ditch or cut back Caramunich
Incorporate a boil to get your gravity up.

Liquid to grain ratio is a lot less on these systems compared to 3V systems.

[coffe addict]

I'll second the using cheap malt for the first cpl runs.

When you have a bit of confidence caramunich will be a good addition but it's an adjunct meaning that it doesn't produce fermentable sugars just good flavours.

35% imo will cause issues anytime I've been over 10% adjunct I've really struggled with puking, that said it made some very flavourful whiskey.

[wynnum1]

With AG Whisky i through you did not have to boil after mashing like when making beer.

[coffe addict]

With you there wynnum1 it seems like alot of wasted power/time. I hit a starting gravity I'm happy with without needing to boil.

[Sparrow]

Thanks for the advice gents, I'll order just some pilsner malt or something similar for the start. And when I put in some caramunich I'll go much easier than 35%!

We're heading to Melbourne to buy a computer this weekend (no more stillin forums on the phone :happy-partydance:). And I'll try to squeeze in a visit to grainandgrape to get some gear.

I was thinking about buying a manual hand crank mill, as long as it works as well i like working by hand. Sit at a desk all day otherwise.

I'm sure I'll have more questions, before I'm set. Thanks again for the help lads.

[tipsy]

With AG Whisky i through you did not have to boil after mashing like when making beer.

My response was for if Sparrow was using a Guten.

With my Braumeister which I think is the same as a Guten, if you don't boil you will end up with a lot of low gravity wort.

I've just found it easier to boil it down. Probably not best practice and it does show the limitations with these machines when making whiskey.

Edit: I'll add that there are workarounds like double mashing but I find them too much work.

[Sparrow]

With AG Whisky i through you did not have to boil after mashing like when making beer.

My response was for if Sparrow was using a Guten.

With my Braumeister which I think is the same as a Guten, if you don't boil you will end up with a lot of low gravity wort.

I've just found it easier to boil it down. Probably not best practice and it does show the limitations with these machines when making whiskey.

Edit: I'll add that there are workarounds like double mashing but I find them too much work.

Guten is a poor man's braumeister.


What's the reasoning for the low gravity wort with this style of mashing?

What are the draw backs with boiling?

I'm keen to do whatever it takes for the best end product.

[scythe]

Low gravity wort or wash can lead to a cleaner flavour once distilled, something about not stressing the yeast as much or something.

But it will mean you need to use more of it to get the same volume of finished product.

[coffe addict]

I would have thought that reducing the water or increasing the grain in the guten or braumeister would still make for a higher sg? Though I have zero knowledge how they work.
Boiling won't do any harm and will assist with protein separation reducing the chances of puking but is more time and power.

[tipsy]

What's the reasoning for the low gravity wort with this style of mashing?

This is my reasoning, although these are just REALLY rough figures cos I'm at work atm.

I have a 60lt fermenter and a 20lt Braumeister. So 2 mashes to fill

I can fit 6kg of grain in one go to get me around 20-24lts of wort at a s.g. of 1.050 to 1.058 which give me around 5 to 5.5% alc

But if I don't boil I'll have over 30lts of a lower gravity...maybe 1.030.

To me all that extra water that isn't boiled off takes up too much room in my fermenter and then boiler.

I hope that makes sense cos I think I've just confused myself 8-}

[tipsy]

I would have thought that reducing the water or increasing the grain in the guten or braumeister would still make for a higher sg?

That's why I think they're limited when doing whiskey, you can only fit so much grain in and you have to have a minimum of water so you don't expose the elements while its recirculating.......and I haven't been game to try and mash corn.

[coffe addict]

Ah ok I think I understand, I had assumed that the grain would be up around 12kg in the 20L.
In this case boiling to the sg up to 1065-1070 would be beneficial.

[Clickeral]

Ah ok I think I understand, I had assumed that the grain would be up around 12kg in the 20L.
In this case boiling to the sg up to 1065-1070 would be beneficial.

DO NOT BOIL WORT THAT IS GOING TO BE DISTILLED

it kills the enzymes and means it wont ferment out as dry, meaning you will have residual sugar which can burn onto your elements

I would aim for an OG of 1060 which would be around a 9% wash if fermented out to 0990

Probably about 10kg of malt for that

[bluc]

You get all grain to go down to .990 whats your full method?

[TasSpirits]

I use the gutens poor country cousin, the robobrew, now Im used to it I hit at least 20-23L @ 1.060, higher now more often than not. Boiling will kill your enzymes and also lose flavour IMHO, I no chill cubed some Heavy Peated Malt and seemed to lose a lot of that smokey flavour. I found the boiled wort took a lot longer to ferment and didn't dryout as well :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Sparrow]

I'm as confused as I was at the beginning again now :think: haha

So deciding on a liquid to grain ratio and whether or not to boil seem pretty divided?

Eventually I'll get a 100 or 200 litre boiler at which time I'll get a more suited tun but for now this is what I've got. From what I read I was hoping to get 7 ish % abv out of a wash or a little better, down to a 5% abv and even a 40 litre wash which is pushing it volume wise isn't going to have a lot of hearts.

My understanding with a total 40 litre capacity and after sparging with 2-3 litres or whatever it maybe was that I'd be able to get a respectable volume 30 or so litres end product to run.

Might be a case of having to run two 20 mashes? :violin: