Irish whiskey

[Frank]

.....
Guess and only a guess tryin to get a flatter earthy final taste as I reckon over did malt on first grain bill. Rye should never have been part of this grain bill...bt1

Mate is the malt in the new spirit overbearing or something?? My point is, I have found the malty smell/taste to mellow lots over time in a barrel.
Also, I thought rye would help impart a flat, dry mouthfeel/taste, which is kind of what you are after(?) Why the comment re 'never' above? :think:
(I'm just trying to understand where this is up to in your opinion)

[crow]

:text-yeahthat: a little time may make the difference . From what I've read rye and wheat both impart a spice type flavor in spirit and are often included in IW grain bills . Over doing the malt :think: hope I haven't done that I used the malt water from the first soaking , may or may not have been a good idea but I wanted as strong as possible flavor as I still intend to triple distill but we'll see

[bt1]

Hello all,

A little concern krept in after watching Stilly's post re the history of whiskey part 4 as it covers Jamesons. The idea well accepted by myself like most i guess is that irish is basically a grain whiskey triple pot distilled and your done.
That's not the case and guess in part it due to the very wide defintion of what a Irish whiskey is. Their web site only mentions malted and "green" (read fresh) unmalted barely triple distilled in a pot.

The youtube clip adds three issues not covered by their own website in fact it contradicts it.
Use of maize (corn)
Column still use and the blending of column and pot still whiskeys
Different barrels used sherry and bourbon

Eventually I'll need to make 2 distinct types of whiskey and blend

1 A Fresh barley mainly and malted "pale low ebc type" barley grain whiskey triple distilled in the pot then onto ex sherry timbers. This is the base stock by volume.

2 A second whiskey using pale malt again and and either corn or barely onto ex bourbon timbers. A heavier malted type but no peating, run through the Boka.

The final product late this year i guess will be a blend of the two.

I'm chasing down old sherry casks/timbers with wineries in Barossa wine district in SA currently...looks promising...Hoping to secure a few 4 + year old barrels.

I have 80lt low wines ready of first type, a grain whiskey, ready for pot runs 2 & 3 this weekend. I'm just focusing on this type currently as i want to better understand how it can be timbered sherry vs bourbon,tastes, colour differences etc. Once happy I'll kick off the second whiskey type i guess.

I just have a gut feel that this first type, a fresh grain might be close enough to Tully/ Jamesons to stop there... wouldn't that be a joy and pleasure... :pray:

bt1

[R-sole]

I've found both the easiest and the most satisfying way to tackle a project like this is to choose a style, research what it's made up of (as you have done) and set about creating a drink in the style. Something your own.

This ends up a lot easier than trying to replicate what someone else is doing and usually a lot better than what they're doing.

I guess that's how all these companies started their product. Jack Daniels didn't go out to copy Jim Beam, they went out to better them.


I find it's the same with beers now i'm doing allgrain. Find an example of style i like and use that as an inspiration to make something better and catered even more to my tastes.


So you might think you like certain parts of one whiskey, but you also like say the spice of another different style altogether. You could make a smooth whiskey and bite with a peppercorn, or spice with some triticale.

By all means research the irish whiskey, but try to better it, not replicate it.

This is just my take on things and others may hold different views.

[bt1]

hello all,

Just finished the last of the third distill runs. Collected from 92 abv down to about 75 abv for about 8+lt per run. Love the trusty old hybird pot!

Surprised it has that sharp smell I'd thought after three distill runs it would be bland smelling. See how it goes after several days of airing before calling it.

bt1

[bt1]

hello all,

the first batch has been well aired and has been sitting on sherry soaked light toast oak for a couple weeks now. Taste/smell has calmed down a lot now sitting at 65 abv. I would say it's flat however. Oddly tried a few Tullimore Dew's again last night ( comparision purposes only mind you...lol) its not the same but it's getting close. On a small taster it has that mid tongue grain feel...be nice if stays that way.

It light in colour as expected. Later washes where just top ups of, fresh barley, small amount of malted barely and wheat. Those Victoria brand grain mills are great..well worth the bucks imho.

The triple distill routine is a real storage issue with a new 50lt ss keg pushed into service. Guess not much more on this thread till we get to 2 months for a little taste test sess.

cheers
bt1

[Frank]

@bt1 mate what do you mean by I would say it's flat however???
and, given your obvious concern re overoak potential, could you give us a clue re oak vs spirit volumes as per what you decided to go with please......

hope your efforts work a treat BTW and pretty sure it will ;-)

[bt1]

Hello Frank/all,

I'll keep using adjectives until the sun comes down cos I reckon it's the best method we have to communicate a flavour idea...so excuse if your not into descriptive comparisions...

What I kinda meant by "flat however" is a good thing. It lacks that nasal burn, bite of more robust sugar head grain bills I've done before sitting at 65 abv. It's really very rounded, lacking that high alcho nose. Even now it tastes better than most I've done before(5+years last round)...I think I'll become a convert to this earthy, un malted fresh grain, triple distilled process very quickly.
I am surprised but welcome, how quick it "turns"/mellows. It's a fraction of the time of corn/rye whiskey sugar head or typical UJSM.

For oaking it is extremely light toasted oak, 45 mins at 185c only 1 pin prick hole in foil roasting try cover, sat in dry sherry for 4 weeks, sherry changed over to get rid of the heavier initial colour and oaky~ness, another 3- 4 weeks on fresh dry sherry. The new fresh lot really belts it along.

In 5Lt mason jars no seals, open lids, 2 pieces 6cm x2.5cm x 5mm for two weeks or until colour is golden light brown then I plan to reduce to close lids, 1 piece for as long as it takes to mellow.
I've started at 65 abv but will drop below 60 abv to pick up some more flavour i think.

it's really enjoyable to make something new, away from the mainstream of what you normally do....when you get a result you really like it's the best part of having more time in this hobby...custom made spirits...don't under estimate it!

a rather chatty/dribbling
bt1

[bt1]

Hold the phone!

Got a chance to seriuosly taste this yesterday between 2 runs and doing cuts/blending on another run.

It still smells tame no question with grain noteable. I'm not sure on the taste however. initial taste is very strong really bitey now...I wondering what i buggered up on last small taste...I've stuffed up here ..may be watered it down too much...unsure. For this taste did 250ml cut back to 50% abv and tasted it several times.

The lingering taste is fairly flat and grainy which i don't mind. reckon I've a lot more work to do. I'm also questioning the triple distilled process in terms of my cuts and wether a triple run really does make a smoother drop....more questions to be answered.

bt1

[bt1]

Hello all,

sad to say near a month down the track with more sherried oak strips added this aint improved a whole lot.

I 'll give it another month but i doubt it will make a major difference. Just way too much bite at any stength.

bt1

[grumpthehermit]

Maybe it's just going to need allot more time to mellow out?

:think:

Cheers
GTH

[crow]

Hi bt just wondering whats happening here, at first you thought it was rather flat with no bite and now you seem to be at the other extreme. Did this happen after blending? looks by ya posts that perhaps what ya blended it with was a little headsy . Did the stuff you blended it with get ran 3 times because the unique flavor of Irish whiskey I doubt could be reproduced otherwise . If this is the case you may have to run it through again, I would recommend a fast strip run and re do what few cuts are needed. On the upside it seems some of the oak will pull through the still so as to give you a head start. EG ran some oaked tails and he believes it is the best stuff he's produced to date (pre aged) :handgestures-thumbupleft: . I cannot see a reason why this wouldn't turn out a really nice dram , I mean playing with the grain bill will change the profile but any combination of these grains (wheat,barely,rye, oats) should all be able to produce an Irish styled whiskey , just boils down to technique I'd assume

[rookie]

or better still something that might resemble Bushmills malt

I recently found this - it might or might not help

by the way, mixing unpeated malt whiskey with corn whiskey (80%malt/20%corn) and aging on old bourbon chips with a dash of sherry makes a great copy of Bushmill's Black Bush Irish blend- my favorite.

[rookie]

The expense will come with the bottles of whiskey you'll need to buy for comparison :Bushmills Malt (not black bush as thats a bourbon bend and shit)

Scrub that last post I just found this

[crow]

Ha :laughing-rolling: rookie that's just my opinion, a lot of ppl must like it or they wouldn't sell it. But it is not what I would call the flavour of a traditional Irish malt

[bt1]

Hello all,

Time to put my hand up!

I consider this grain bill a dud. I re tasted yesterday with two mates.
It has good grain flavours
It is light in colour and has a nice back of palate taste
This issue remains the initial bite is like "insane" Like not even straight 90 abv would have this much bite.

kk it might need time, years i suspect but for us looking for a turn around in under a year it's a dud.
So my overall comment is 50% fresh barely don't work.True it could have been a grain quality issue but we've no reasonable method to determine this.

I'm getting close to finishing the perf plate still inspired by the need for a better quality spirit from this irish experiment to be honest, but will focus on corn/malt variations in future.

Good luck to anyone who wants to pursue a fresh barely grain bill, my advice is don't bother.

bt1

[Kimbo]

Thats a shame Bt1, and thanks for the honest update :handgestures-thumbupleft:
dont ditch it, just leave it in the back of the cupboard and forget about it for a while ;-)

[crow]

:think: wonder what went wrong, listen there's a thread on HD about likker with a over the top bite , If ya not on there I'll have a read through it for ya

[TasSpirits]

I'm on a mission to create a Irish Whiskey knock off for the Other Half, after talking to some Irish guys I worked with that come from Bushmills, they reckon its made with Maize and Malted Barley. Todays mash was going to be pure corn whiskey, but I thought WTF I've got some Irish Distillers Malt, lets give it a go. First mash is 8lb cracked corn and 5lb Irish distillers malt, I went with cracked corn for ease of mashing(and I had it here),sacrificing a little yield. Looks like Ill have 23L at 1.055 which is not too bad, I'm going to have to mash enough for a 40L spirit run, it will take a while but hopefully will have some good results. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[bluc]

Wondering tas did you sparge squeeze or ferment on the grain?