Recipe Discussion

by **NotBenStiller** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:21 pm

If you are deviating heavily from the *TRIED AND PROVEN* TPW recipe - which is

5kg sugar
80grams bakers yeast
1/4 tea spoon citric acid
200 grams leggo's tomato paste.

post in the *RECIPE DEVELOPMENT* section with your experimentation

:handgestures-thumbupleft:

by **bt1** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:28 pm

Reckon you'd be surprised what a 1/4 jar of tom paste does to a 25 to 27lt wash...

get yourself some pH strips at least...check it for yourself. meters are dead cheap on ebay worthy addition to the kit.

bt1

by **MacStill** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:30 pm

SBB wrote:I pity anyone who's new to distilling and washes reading this entire thread.........they are gunna leave really confused,
All it takes is to FOLLOW the RECIPE on page one, Let it ferment out, let it sit a few days to a week , then run it.
It really is that easy.
i have nothing against experimentation with washes or discussing different methods, but why make something so simple sound so hard in a tried a proven thread.

Could agree more mate, seems to be getting ignored though :angry-banghead:

I am going to clean this thread right up when I get time, ok everyone? if you want to discuss variations start your own thread as NBS suggested.

All this shit about ph, water, yeast tolerance and crap has it's own sub categories for discussion and really has no place in this tried and proven recipe, this recipe has been used for so many years in so many parts of the world and has not failed unless people interfere with it and fuck it up......

Even I'm getting confused.... FUCK!!!! ~x(

by **Kimbo** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:39 am

.This is a forum where members can discuss anything to do with recipes, the idea is to keep the technical treads free so please do the right thing :handgestures-thumbupleft:

by **audistiller** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:30 pm

My first ever TPW has just finished fermenting in 7 days, although its quite a small wash, the final S/G is slightly under 990. Out of curiosity I checked the sample with the Hydrometer and it showed just under 10%. I suppose I cant complain about that for a first attempt, so I'm about to start a 25 or 27 litre TPW and hit the ground running from here on out. I cant wait to run it, but I will leave it another week or so to clear a bit.

by **Urrazeb** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:11 am

audistiller wrote:My first ever TPW has just finished fermenting in 7 days, although its quite a small wash, the final S/G is slightly under 990. Out of curiosity I checked the sample with the Hydrometer and it showed just under 10%. I suppose I cant complain about that for a first attempt, so I'm about to start a 25 or 27 litre TPW and hit the ground running from here on out. I cant wait to run it, but I will leave it another week or so to clear a bit.

I think you'll find the potential alc reading on the hydrometer does not relate to spirits
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=667

by **audistiller** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:48 pm

Urrazeb wrote:I think you'll find the potential alc reading on the hydrometer does not relate to spirits

Yep I know that, but like I said out of curiosity I thought I would check it.

by **db1979** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 pm

Sorry to drag this back up but I thought it was really important.

Anyway, some have said that it wasn't necessary to use citric acid in the TPW, and others have cited the tried and tested status of the recipe. Those that have claimed that citric acid is not needed I believe are basing this off an overly simplistic approach to the chemistry involved (which is understandable considering the pH chemistry is complex).

Yes the TP does have a reasonably low pH, but granted, when diluted into the wash this will become less significant. Also, the yeast has a preference of an acidic pH. However the yeast will not tolerate too low a pH.

The most important consideration is that the fermentation process produces carbon dioxide which when dissolves in solution (the wash), and it will dissolve, reacts with water to make carbonic acid. Carbonic acid is a weak acid but an acid none the less. A large concentration of carbonic acid (from say a wash that is going ballistic) could be enough to affect the yeast.

Citric acid is an acid that acts as a buffer. A buffer is a chemical/chemicals that maintain pH within a specific region (unless overpowered with too much acid or base). Citric acid is added to fermentation runs commercially for just this reason, so the pH is kept in an acceptable range for the yeast. Carbonic acid also acts as a buffer but in a different pH range.

I don't understand every bit of chemistry that is going on with regards to the acids and bases in fermentation (maybe the phosphates in the tomato paste act as the base in order for the citric acids to buffer???) but I think if it is used in industry (and they wouldn't use it if it wasn't important) and if it is part of a tried and tested recipe, then I will definitely continue using it in my TPW's.

Perhaps someone will be willing to test the pH of a control batch of TPW against a batch with no citric acid, kept at the same temperature and started at the same time (as well as keeping all other variables controlled)? Unfortunately I don't have a pH meter at home (yet) and the ones at my school have proven to be terribly unreliable.

by **googe** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:07 am

If it tastes how you want it to taste with or without citric acid, why flog a dead horse. Sorry dear just thinking out load...

by **crow** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:12 am

Good point :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft: and I'm surprised that buffers haven't been raised in this thread until now , fact is the use of buffers should be mentioned in the reading lounge so ppl understand why as much how to do things. I thought about this quite a few months back and then forgot about it :handgestures-thumbupleft:
post same time as googe. :@ googe unless ya planning on drinking the wash, ka? :)) its about fermenting

by **tasteslikechicken** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:00 pm

Just put down my first ever of anything - McStill's TPW x 2
All done and dusted I remembered that I forgot :wtf: the citric acid. Squeezed a lemon into the 50L mix then thought I better check here. Did a search and this thread came up. Geez, what a head f...! :doh:
By the looks the lemon should do the damage, but either way not super required and could of left acid out anyway? maybe? maybe not ...

by **heenos** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:46 pm

Righty-o just did as the recipe suggests, TPW underway yaaaay, please excuse my laziness but when should I airlock the fermenter? Or don't you have to, pitched yeast in about 5min ago

by **Cane Toad** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:54 pm

Just place the lid on for the first day mate,and screw it down tomorrow,once everything is up and running :handgestures-thumbupleft:

by **heenos** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:02 pm

Cupcake wrote:Just place the lid on for the first day mate,and screw it down tomorrow,once everything is up and running :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Ah cool as, have done that as a pesty bloody fly keeps wanting to go for it grrr...

Cheers heaps :)

by **SBB** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:24 pm

heenos wrote: but when should I airlock the fermenter?

I usually do it straight away, just have to keep an eye on it for the first couple of hours incase it tries to froth up to much, Stir the froth on top back in with a spoon if it misbehaves.

by **googe** » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:37 pm

I just put the lid on loose, never used air locks :shifty:

by **heenos** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:15 pm

Well after 5-6 days it stopped its fermentation, left it till this morning (8 days) and did a stripping run, got about 6L after getting rid of the first 150ml (not got rid of just put aside in a 1L glass jar) and watered the remainder down to 40%...back into the boiler it went for the spirit run (should/could have stripped it again but just want to see how it turns out). In the middle of the run now and after 2.5hrs have collected almost 2L, first 150ml is locked in a jar along with the 150ml from the strip run and then put 500ml away into another jar (the head). Have since filled 3x 500ml jars and the smell is nice :) keeping the outlet temp @ 51deg and must say very impressed with how it's all going! Big cheers to macstill for the recipe and all those who helped me out along the way :D much appreciated

by **heenos** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:17 pm

Forgot to mention the last 500ml I expect to get I'll class as the tail and put that aside with the head until the next run

by **DaveZ** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:00 pm

Have a look at my thread - viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3328 A worthwhile exercise that will open your eyes to just what is coming out of your still. I was quite amazed at how bad the heads and tails really are :mrgreen:

by **heenos** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:07 pm

DaveZ wrote:Have a look at my thread - http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3328 A worthwhile exercise that will open your eyes to just what is coming out of your still. I was quite amazed at how bad the heads and tails really are :mrgreen:

Was having a look at your thread earlier, definitely need some 200ml jars, the smell between the head and jars 2-4 is a big difference! Just finishing up the tails now but haven't got the wet dog smell so thinking there might be still more to come but it's coming out hell slow, going to let it run for another hour...so far it seems like I have 1.75L of good heart