All Mollases Rum (no sugar added)

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All Mollases Rum (no sugar added)

Postby Yummyrum » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:20 pm

Brendan was asking about this Here and Mac suggested a new thread so this is my experiments in this area this season .
I have been making MacRum style but wanted to try all Molasses.My concerns were that replacing the sugar with extra molasses might cause the wash to stall or produce bad flavours .Now most of you know that I am chasing a Bundy style Rum and most of my experiments have been to try to simulate it but ....to the Bundy haters I would say that at this stage ,I am not getting a product that tastes like Bundy .....so please read on as what I am getting is much nicer than the sugar /molasses Rums even though it is fairly new on oak .
Some of what I am doing goes against popular practice .

I am using a Clarifying process which although rather involved seems to be having many advantages . The Rum can be made without the clarifying process but I have found that with it foam up during fermenting is greater and puking is greater ...also the taste ...believe it or not is ending up better .

So here goes ...makes a 50 liter wash ( after clarifying)

Basic recipe :
12 liters Molasses
9 liters Dunder
30 liters water
teaspoon Epsom salts
1/2 cup Lowans bread yeast

Ferment at 38 deg C ...yes ...38 deg C

This is the simple process where I sterilize the wash first although there is minimal clarification ...I will do the more complicated clarifying method later ...or in a different thread

Pour all the liquids into a big pot ..start with the Dunder and water ..then slowly add the molasses while using a paint stirrer in a drill

Mixing in the molasses.jpg


Heat until about 85 deg C and let cool to just under 40 deg C

Clarifying molasses and dunder,waiting for 85deg C.jpg




Rack off the clearer stuff into the fermenter .I use a 68 liter wash tub with a sheet of glass on top ..I find that a shallow wide fermenter handles Rum washes far better than tall skinny ones .

Then add the Epsom salts and aerate with the paint stirrer.

Airating with a paint stirrer in a drill.jpg


Add the yeast . and several hours later ...it will be off . No violent froth up .At the higher temps ,the fermentation is like a boiling pot of coke-a cola .

Fermenting.jpg


I strip in a pot still ...25 liters at a time , combine the strips and then do a spirit run .

I have this on a Variety of Oaks at the moment @ 78 ABV as apposed to the usual 65%
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Yummyrum » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:31 pm

A typical start SG for this wash is around 1.110-1.120 and the end SG will be around 1.060 ...the wash will be fully fermented out in around 36-48 hours ...at the recommended temps ....I thought that Yeasts die above 30 deg but this is not so and this will produce very nice Rum flavours at just under 40 deg C.

I normally leave it for another day or so before stripping
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby MacStill » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:38 pm

Sounds like a winner to me :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I totally agree about ferment temps, the hotter the better IMHO if you want those yummy esters to push through.... I always found rum fermented at cooler temps a bit bitey and bland.
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Brendan » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:52 am

Thanks very much to Yummy for this and Mac for the extra verification.

This is exactly what I was leading towards as I have read about commercial distillers clarifying their molasses in order to use a 100% molasses wash without the addition of sugar, as is the law for any commercial operation.

Thanks Guys :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby casamayor » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:17 am

Hello , all my rum is made with 100% of molasses, i got every time a very good taste; i tried also with sugar but i did prefer 100% of molasses!
Slainte
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Brendan » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:44 am

casamayor wrote:Hello , all my rum is made with 100% of molasses, i got every time a very good taste; i tried also with sugar but i did prefer 100% of molasses!
Slainte


So are you saying that you also use a clarification process..or just that you use 100% rum and like it?
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby casamayor » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:24 am

Hello

i never use a clarification process, for instance for 75 liters:
- 19 liters of molasses
-56 liters of water( i never used dunder)
- 30 gr of sulfate amonium
-100ml citric acid
SG 1.110
FG 1.035 ( after 3 days)
200 gr of baker yeast
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Chips Molasses » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:37 pm

I only used 3kg sugar in my last 50l wash. and around 10-12l molasses. I am looking forward to it, just putting it through the mighty air still today (yes I know I need a better device)
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby dogbreath vodka » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:56 pm

Thanks YRum
I will be putting this thread in my favourites list... for later, when I get to do a rum. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

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All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby wedwards » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:00 pm

Would this mean you get most of the flavour without having to do multi generations? I'm guessing it would make a pretty good rum on a single gen and then a multi gen would have a bit more flavour. I'm interested in not having to do multi gens as I have no attention span, but I definately like the end product. If I can get close on a single gen then I'm happy.
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:04 pm

Yummyrum wrote:.........
I am using a Clarifying process which although rather involved seems to be having many advantages . The Rum can be made without the clarifying process but I have found that with it foam up during fermenting is greater and puking is greater ...also the taste ...believe it or not is ending up better .


Sorry guys major typo in my OP :angry-banghead:
I've sent Kimbo a PM to correct it but in the mean while ,it should have read

I am using a Clarifying process which although rather involved seems to be having many advantages . The Rum can be made without the clarifying process but I have found that without it foam up during fermenting is greater and puking is greater ...also the taste ...believe it or not ,is not as good

The way I wrote it looked like the clarifying was a backward step ...sorry.
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:09 pm

wedwards wrote:Would this mean you get most of the flavour without having to do multi generations? I'm guessing it would make a pretty good rum on a single gen and then a multi gen would have a bit more flavour. I'm interested in not having to do multi gens as I have no attention span, but I definately like the end product. If I can get close on a single gen then I'm happy.


Hi Wedwards .

yes ,Single Runs are fine ,The only way I see a gen working here is to save a $1.50 worth of yeast .

I save the Dunder and when I am ready to make another batch ,I just start again .I have several buckets of dunder ,some are old ,some are fresh ,some have moulds,some don't .I just use which everone I fell like at the time .....Not very scientific but I am trying to Dial in Dunder smells/flavours .
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:27 pm

Brendan wrote:This is exactly what I was leading towards as I have read about commercial distillers clarifying their molasses in order to use a 100% molasses wash without the addition of sugar, as is the law for any commercial operation.

No worries Brendan .I am really keen to here from any info you have found regarding Commercial Clarifying as I have found it very thin on the ground with no real details ...only vague hints ..
The more advanced process I use is only an educated guess ,some trial and error....I have know Idea how close it is to what is done behind closed doors
Most of my info was from SBB ...cheers mate :handgestures-thumbupleft: ...and suggestions from the "Crows" ....cheers guys

casamayor wrote:Hello

i never use a clarification process, for instance for 75 liters:
- 19 liters of molasses
-56 liters of water( i never used dunder)
- 30 gr of sulfate amonium
-100ml citric acid
SG 1.110
FG 1.035 ( after 3 days)
200 gr of baker yeast

Like your recipe ,and agree with your sg readings ,the Dunder I add is what causes my finish sg to be so high.

I am curious about the sulphate amonium ,where do you get it ? Does it have a common name ...like Epsom salts is Magnesium Sulphate ?

Chips Molasses wrote:I only used 3kg sugar in my last 50l wash. and around 10-12l molasses. I am looking forward to it, just putting it through the mighty air still today (yes I know I need a better device)

Sounds like you're well on the way ,next time try without the sugar :handgestures-thumbupleft:

MacStill wrote:Sounds like a winner to me :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I totally agree about ferment temps, the hotter the better IMHO if you want those yummy esters to push through.... I always found rum fermented at cooler temps a bit bitey and bland.


Thanks Mac ...how high have you pushed the temp ?

Thanks DBV ,those folders get pretty full aye
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby newbiboozer » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:34 pm

I will be giving this a go soon. Ive read a few recipes from the Harvest to moonshine book with all mollasses. What is involved in the clarifying process.
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All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby wedwards » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:05 pm

I gotta try this as soon as I can get around to doing a spirit run of my multi-gen lot.
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:47 pm

newbiboozer wrote:I will be giving this a go soon. Ive read a few recipes from the Harvest to moonshine book with all molasses. What is involved in the clarifying process.


Basically ,it involves adding calcium hydroxide to the wash to raise the pH to around 8.5 - 9.0 ,then heating the wash to between 85-95 deg C for two hours .Also it was suggested to me that a flocculant such as Sodium Acid Pyrophoshate ( commonly referred to as SAPP in the food processing industry ) should be added before the heat up as it would aid the process....but I have been unable to obtain any in small quantities ( I don't need a pellet of it ) :))

The strong alkaline condition and the heat cause the heavy suspended solids to drop out of the solution ...the flocculant helps .

Top up the evaporated water .

Then when the liquid has cooled ,Racking off the clearer product and then lower the pH down to around 5.5 - 6.0 with Hydrochloric acid . :scared-eek:
OK now that's where I will probably loose most of my audience :laughing-rolling:



To validate what I am doing , Bundy ,in their online tour say how they use the sediment from the clarification process to put back on the land ...They say its like gypsum and helps brake down clay soils.

Now ...a basic molasses and water and Dunder wash is acidic ,so the only way they can claim it to be like Gypsum is due to addition of Calcium Hydroxide during clarification .....all the shit falls out of the wash.....the good stuff is racked off to be later acidified but the sediment which is high in Calcium goes back onto the sugar fields .

Now to lower the pH ,you need a very strong acid , it takes a lot of Hydrochloric to do this to a molasses wash compared to just a watery alkaline solution .
Hydrochloric or Sulfuric acid are used in commercial Distilleries as part of the clarifying process but most tend to prefer Hydrochloric .

I also choose this due to a link from SBB ...again not a definitive directive but a comment from someone that may well be right .

So ....how much crap settles out ?
If I just do the simple clarification ? sterilization method , there will be some sediment but if you compare before after SG ,there is almost no detectable change
With the advanced clarification ,I am getting repeated drops from SG 1.120 to 1.110....so it is definitely doing something .
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby SBB » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:46 pm

Yummyrum wrote:I am curious about the sulphate amonium ,where do you get it ? Does it have a common name ...like Epsom salts is Magnesium Sulphate ?


Also known as Ammonium Sulphate, fairly high in nitrogen content, handy for killing broad leaf weeds in lawns, It burns the leaves.
Quote: "It contains 21% nitrogen as ammonium cations, and 24% sulfur as sulfate anions."
You should able to get it at any rural produce store or at places like Bunnings and Garden centers in smaller quantities.
Im not sure if there is much if any difference between Di Ammonium Sulfate (DAP) and Ammonium Sulphate, personally Id be looking into that before sticking it in a wash.
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Woodsy71 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:17 am

SBB wrote:
Yummyrum wrote:I am curious about the sulphate amonium ,where do you get it ? Does it have a common name ...like Epsom salts is Magnesium Sulphate ?


Also known as Ammonium Sulphate, fairly high in nitrogen content, handy for killing broad leaf weeds in lawns, It burns the leaves.
Quote: "It contains 21% nitrogen as ammonium cations, and 24% sulfur as sulfate anions."
You should able to get it at any rural produce store or at places like Bunnings and Garden centers in smaller quantities.
Im not sure if there is much if any difference between Di Ammonium Sulfate (DAP) and Ammonium Sulphate, personally Id be looking into that before sticking it in a wash.



Prior to September 11 you used to be able to grab ute loads of Sulphate of Ammonia. Tops for a buffalo lawn. Kills the weeds and feeds the grass. Brings it up a treat.

Its now only sold in small quantities and though ive not read the blurb on the side of the pack, i reckon its not what it used to be....either way, im not sure id throw it in a wash.
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Golden Sunshine » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:41 am

Clarified Molasses?

Boy now I'm curious!

The process described sounded something akin to hot break protein coagulation in wort boiling but I didn't think molasses had anything but protein deficiency from use as cattle feed where you had to supplement the lack of protein in molasses feeds.

Sharing the research: Industrially molasses is clarified by heating it and then spinning it at high speed in large centrifruges. This mechanical separation process takes out any residual protein, sand and calcium which tend to induce unreliability in the fermentation process.

Postulating: So there may be merit in clarification if you have dirty raw unclassified molasses as a source but it's also why no clarification methods will work as the levels of mechanically removable components in a batch of molasses may not impact a hobby scale fermenter who is not tied to an automation process where consistent results are desired to set up the automation to be consistently effective to specific results to timelines.

Cheers, GS
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Re: All Mollases Rum ( no suger added)

Postby Yummyrum » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:23 am

Thanks for the info GS
I think you are right about the hot break .I haven't worked out what part of my total process does the most good but I am definitely getting a much easier product to deal with both in the fermenter and the still .The taste is strange but maturing very well ...does not have the buttery smell of a normal MacRum style Rum ...I am liking it so far

I have started a tread on the more complicated clarifying method HERE
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