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Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:03 pm
by Chocko6969
G'day all, over the weekend I got to run my first gin and have to say I'm quite impressed. I used one of the recipes from this forum and not being a gin drinker as such I'm very happy with it.
Only one aesthetic issue, after allowing it to sit overnight in the cuts jars, I diluted to 40% with filtered water and this has caused clouding?
It's still a good taste and smell but I was hoping for clear, is it just too many oils come over and into the product?
I did cuts just to learn if there were differences in flavours at different abv, and ran 3ltrs of hearts down to 30% on the parrot.

Any thoughts appreciated

Chocko

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:24 pm
by PeterC
The oils coming out of solution on dilution with water and causing clouding is called louching (also called the ouzo effect). Some here say that Gin is better at 45% abv so you could try that. If the flavour is plenty strong you could add some neutral back to it to see at what abv it clears, but sometimes it does not easily reverse and go clear. Better to go the other way. The 40% abv spirit rule is more to do with tax and labeling declarations. For brown spirits, I oak at 65% (which they say is optimum) and don't bother diluting just use a bit less when making mixers (or not!)

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:42 pm
by Chocko6969
PeterC wrote:The oils coming out of solution on dilution with water and causing clouding is called louching (also called the ouzo effect). Some here say that Gin is better at 45% abv so you could try that. If the flavour is plenty strong you could add some neutral back to it to see at what abv it clears, but sometimes it does not easily reverse and go clear. Better to go the other way. The 40% abv spirit rule is more to do with tax and labeling declarations. For brown spirits, I oak at 65% (which they say is optimum) and don't bother diluting just use a bit less when making mixers (or not!)


Thank you for the information here, always learning new and interesting things! I'll have a go at getting it back up to 45abv and see if that helps otherwise will just go with it and be happy with the cloud!
Cheers mate,

Chocko

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:48 pm
by Chocko6969
Well that worked a treat, 45% it is!

Cheers!

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:54 pm
by Bee jay
Dont know if anynone has tried to do a knock of Piger Henricus gin .
Parsnips involved late in the recipe look up there site somthing different.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:20 pm
by RC Al
The other thing is, did you add water to alcohol or vice-versa?

Just as you pour your drink over ice, you should be pouring the alc into the right volume of water, this will also help avoid louching

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:24 pm
by Craiguzzi
Where is the oriss Angelica and grains of paradise available in Adelaide?

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:35 pm
by PeterC
Craiguzzi wrote:Where is the oriss Angelica and grains of paradise available in Adelaide?

got mine on line from from Austral Herbs https://www.australherbs.com.au/

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:11 pm
by Tesla101
:text-+1: ^^^

Grains of Paradise also available online at Herbie's Spices.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:06 pm
by Permaclutter
Jaeger fine foods shop 38 in the Central Market has Grains of Paradise, The Honey Shop has Angelica and The Organic Market in Stirling has Orris powder.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:12 pm
by Hull brew
Gentlemen, I'd Appreciate any thoughts regarding quantities of botanicals on the following, my first attempt at Blond chaps gin.
I have 4 litres of double distilled 94% neutral.
I plan on diluting this down (30%?) and running it through my pot still with the botanicals in a suspended muslim bag before the product condenser.
If I read correctly (page 9 of this thread), I should be aiming for approx 20-35g of botanicals per litre of finished product.
The thing I cant get my head round is the amount of finished product I might end up with, so cannot calculate the quantity of botanicals.
Also if this post is in wrong place, don't spare the abuse!

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:53 pm
by BSC_Kilby
Hull brew wrote:Gentlemen, I'd Appreciate any thoughts regarding quantities of botanicals on the following, my first attempt at Blond chaps gin.
I have 4 litres of double distilled 94% neutral.
I plan on diluting this down (30%?) and running it through my pot still with the botanicals in a suspended muslim bag before the product condenser.
If I read correctly (page 9 of this thread), I should be aiming for approx 20-35g of botanicals per litre of finished product.
The thing I cant get my head round is the amount of finished product I might end up with, so cannot calculate the quantity of botanicals.
Also if this post is in wrong place, don't spare the abuse!


The botanicals per L are based on charge volume not yield volume. I know of gin recipes as high as 45g/L and as low as 11, but I've found 20-22g/L to be a pretty good starting point.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:26 am
by Hull brew
Thanks, unsure what defines charge here.
4l at 94% being equal to 9.4l at 40%, i.e. the finished product, would require 9.4 x 20/22g botanicals?
Is this correct?
In reality I'd be diluting to 30% in the still, but this isn't relevant is it?

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:04 am
by PeterC
My last variation on this recipe, using a very small still with a chamber just above the boiler for the botanicals, I used 800ml of 93% alcohol diluted with 1 litre of water and collected 930ml of 76% ABV product which I diluted back to 45%. I ran the still to about 20% ABV. So based on the alcohol quantity you are about 5 times more than my run. My modified recipe was;
4g Juniper
1 Almond
1 Orange peel strip
1 Lemon peel strip
0.3g Angelica root
0.3g Orris root
0.3g Coriander
1/4 Cassia bark scroll
0.1g Nutmeg
0.1g Dill tips
1 Clove
1 Cardamon pod

I though the product was good but light on citrus maybe. The spent botanicals still had some citrus oils in it. Left out Star Anise as I don't like it. Left out Peppercorn and Grains of Paradise for now. My next run I will use Mandarin peel or Cumquat. Increase the Coriander a lot and maybe the Angelica. I will also try some Kafir Lime leaves. I have seen a recipe that uses 5 times as much Juniper but my family is happy with our result and enjoy the other nuances in the drink rather than the powerful piney notes from the juniper.

So if you multiply the above by 5 you should be in the range and make something successful and I hope to your liking. From this first base you can modify to your taste.
Enjoy.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:15 pm
by BSC_Kilby
Hull brew wrote:Thanks, unsure what defines charge here.
4l at 94% being equal to 9.4l at 40%, i.e. the finished product, would require 9.4 x 20/22g botanicals?
Is this correct?
In reality, I'd be diluting to 30% in the still, but this isn't relevant is it?


Personally, the pot ABV going in, I adjust to fine-tune a recipe a bit. Higher if I think I want a bit more spice of bright citrus, lower if I want more earthy flavours and bigger mouthfeel. So, again only in my experience, I base it solely on how much neutral is going in the pot. This is nearly always 40%ABV anyway because I believe in getting the flavors that I want in there and running the still in ways that target those flavours. It's only if I cant get that extra 5% that makes it magic, that I would adjust ABV.

So for your situation, if you're looking at a total charge of 9.4L with a dose rate of 20g p/L, you're total botanical weight would be 188g. You can then break that down using guidelines from other sections of the site for how much of each.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:52 am
by Hull brew
PeterC, BSC-Kilby - my thanks for your input.
Think I'm ready to get started now.
My preference is for a typical London dry gin, but will sup it no matter what.
Cheers :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:46 am
by Hull brew
Well that was fun.
Total charge was 9.3l at 40%.
Multiplied all botanicals by 5 as per PeterC recipe above.
In weight this was approx 80g, well short of the 'recommended' amount.
Unsure what to do so pressed on. When its your first time, ones as good as another.
First lesson learned - I should have run just a litre as a trial. I now know I need more juniper in for my personal taste and it took all day to learn this!
Ran the still very slow - only 500W, for the most part temps stable at 81C, only rising as alcohol content diminishing.
Anyhow, ended up with 4.55l at 78%.
Is it best to leave this for a while before diluting down to drinkable strength?

I'm also wondering if my botanical bag was a tight enough fit.
I was concerned that it might swell and block the still, so wound a restraining spiral of copper wire around, just to be on safe side. Not needed I reckon.
As can be seen, there was a small gap between the botanical haggis and the still's pipework.
Should I have jammed it in good n proper, or am I worrying too much?
IMG_5135.JPG
IMG_5136.JPG
IMG_5133.JPG

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:56 am
by BSC_Kilby
Hull brew wrote:Well that was fun.
Total charge was 9.3l at 40%.
Multiplied all botanicals by 5 as per PeterC recipe above.
In weight this was approx 80g, well short of the 'recommended' amount.
Unsure what to do so pressed on. When its your first time, ones as good as another.
First lesson learned - I should have run just a litre as a trial. I now know I need more juniper in for my personal taste and it took all day to learn this!
Ran the still very slow - only 500W, for the most part temps stable at 81C, only rising as alcohol content diminishing.
Anyhow, ended up with 4.55l at 78%.
Is it best to leave this for a while before diluting down to drinkable strength?

I'm also wondering if my botanical bag was a tight enough fit.
I was concerned that it might swell and block the still, so wound a restraining spiral of copper wire around, just to be on safe side. Not needed I reckon.
As can be seen, there was a small gap between the botanical haggis and the still's pipework.
Should I have jammed it in good n proper, or am I worrying too much?
IMG_5135.JPG
IMG_5136.JPG
IMG_5133.JPG



Great to see you have had a crack at your gin. I only make gin using the one-shot method with no prior maceration, mainly because I don't enjoy vapour infused gins as much. For most of the gins I make 70%+ will be resinous components, of which is juniper berries (not the rock hard little numbers) is the vast majority. You can manipulate your juniper flavour by crushing all, some or none of it. Hopefully, that helps with achieving the level of juniper you want.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:42 pm
by PeterC
Hi Hull Brew,
I have a Carter Head on a 4 inch system and the first time I ran it I made 5 litres at 81% ABV and it was OK but not to my taste. Cutting to 45%, what do you do with 9 litres of unwanted product? Share it with your friends and family in my case. (I was very popular.) So I got a small still that gave me 1.5 litres of finished product and lets me play with recipes. I am happy with the juniper level but maybe increasing the coriander, and I want more citrus notes so am trying kaffir lime next. There is a picture of my setup part way down this page. viewtopic.php?f=56&t=12644 For waiting time to drink, I think cut to drinking strength and then let it rest a few days. I did this in batches as I gave it out.

In regard to how you packed in the botanicals, there has been a bit of discussion on this mainly by those who are suspending a bag in their boiler head space. I think, placing in the vapor path is better. It is what my little still does but I just drop the bag in the top loosely packed. Rule of thumb for packed sections is that you should be able to blow down the pipe and not feel any restriction to the air flow. To see how well things were extracted, open up your botanicals bag, look at and smell the remains. In my case there was some lemon and orange oils still in the peel and it had a spicy note I couldn't clearly identify. Did you run till very low alcohol levels to extract the volatiles that are more soluble in water vapor than alcohol? I go to 20% ABV which for me is the boiler boiling at 97 degrees C. I taste the distillate toward the end to see what is still coming over and decide my run end.

Sorry if I led you astray with insufficient juniper. You could do a run with lots of juniper and blend the result with your current batch. Gin makers who make strongly flavoured gins just put everything in the boiler, but the commercial guys have have oil or steam jacketed boilers and stirrers. For us, we risk the botanicals getting scorched on the electrical elements. When I look at and smell my juniper berries after distillation there is nothing left in them so I think the vapor method works well and brings some other flavours and aromas over. (rose petals anyone?)

Enjoy.

Re: Great Gin Recipe Discussion

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:19 pm
by Hull brew
Hi Peter, thanks for your comments.
Firstly no worries, I don;t feel Ive been lead astray, if anything it's my beginners over enthusiasm.

I tried a couple last night, watered to 43% - it was OK but lacking that (and here my words let me down) that 'zing'.
There is a juniper aroma, do doubt.
I think I may leave star anise out on the next trial, also nutmeg.From your reply, I think I got the packing of the 'haggis' about right.
Ive smelled the residual botanicals and there is little identifiable remaining, so looks like all the good stuff has been extracted.
Without boring you with the vol/temp/% (I kept notes throughout), I can say I stopped at 20%, when the output was an occasional drip.
Still temp rose to 98C at this point.
Last two 150ml collections were at 30 and 20% and were slightly cloudy.
I mixed them all together as the tails had some earthy junipery flavours.
I'll water down a small batch, leave for a few days and sample a few, purely in the name of science!

My thanks for your feedback