Was Popeye Correct?

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Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:39 am

In the interest of cheap, natural and efficient ferment nutrients, I have undertaken an experiment. My purpose was compare some garden vegetables and their ferment power.
My aim was a light neutral base for gins etc - not vodka - I prefer wheat for this.

I settled on:
Tomatoes, Green Peas (these were a frozen pack from the freezer),
Bok Choy (a Chinese Cabbage) and Spinach

Preamble Note:
Contrary to popular opinion Popeye did not eat spinach for its iron. (Incidentally the
story of a misplaced decimal point is a total myth)
While it has a reasonable iron content very little is absorbed by the human body.
Popeye ate spinach for its Beta Carotene or Vitamin A.

The following table is very interesting Not my tests but from reliable sources.
Note these are on a 100g sample
Tomato Green Pea Bok Choy Spinach
Calories 18 81 13 23
Total Fat .02g .04g .02g .04g
Saturated Fat 0g .01g 0g .01g
Polyunsaturated Fat .01g .02g .01g .02g
Monounsaturated fat 0g 0g 0g 0g
Cholesterol 0 0 0 0
Sodium 5mg 5mg 65mg 79mg
Potassium 237mg 244mg 252mg 558mg
Carbohydrate 3.9g 14g 2.2 3.6g
Dietary Fibre 1.2g 5g 1g 2.2g
Sugar 2.6g 6g 1.2 .04
Protein .09g 5g 1.5g 2.9g

Vitamin A * 16% 15% 89% 187%
Vitamin C * 22% 66% 75% 46%
Calcium * 1% 2% 10% 9%
Iron * 1% 8% 4% 15%
Vitamin D * 0 0 0 0
Vitamin B6 * 5% 10% 10% 10%
Vitamin B12 * 0 0 0 0
Magnesium * 2% 8% 4% 19%
* based on RDI 2000 Calorie Diet
Note especially Vitamin A, Iron, Potassium and Magnesium levels

Method
I took garden fresh samples of each of these and dehydrated them and then ground to a powder.

I then prepared 4 batches

In each was 800g of white sugar, dissolved into 2 litres of hot tap water.
For each test I measured 10g of the powder mixed into 100ml of warm water, added to the sugar water mix and topped up to 4 litres in a demijohn.

For each I re-hydrated 10g of bakers yeast in 100ml of warm water, allowed it to start expanding then poured into the jar and stirred. Then made the following tests

At this stage each is identical except for the powder.

SG pH Note
1 Tomato 1080 4.6
2 Green pea 1080 6.8 Added a pinch of Cit Acid to 5.4
3 Bok Choy 1080 5.5
4 Spinach 1080 7.0 Added cit Acid to 5.5


Observations re powders
No 1 evenly spread throughout the solution
No 2 had settled onto bottom of jar
Nos 3 and 4 had the nutrient sitting on the top of the mix

No 3 was slowest to kick off
No 2 was fastest

After 1 hour

1 was bubbling at 25 burps per minute
2 was bubbling at 42 burps per minute
3 was bubbling at 30 burps per minute
4 was bubbling at 45 burps per minute

After 3 hours all ticking away evenly but No 2 had a very high light foam pushing up to the airlock Pressure released and it settled.

24 Hours later No 1 and No 4 had very thick krausen cap, No 3 had much less and No 2 had no cap.

All ticking away steadily

I wondered if No 1 and No 4 had too much nutrient causing the thick cap so I prepared 1 more each of these but this time with 5g of powder and 5g of yeast. These became No 5 (Tomato) and No 6 (Spinach) (Note I now realise it was a sign of a strong healthy ferment.)

30 minutes later activity started in the airlock. These were (as expected) not as dark coloured a solution.

After 48 hours all still ticking away although at a slightly slower rate.
No 4 - Spinach has had much of its krausen cap fall - this may be a sign of getting close to completion. I see lots of bits of nutrient rising and falling away as the CO2 lifts it and breaks away to the surface
I will not open any up to test SG until I see a marked decrease in activity.

After 7 days ( my shed is at around 22C) the following was observed:

All were bubbling away slowly with the exception of No 4 (Spinach)
Measured the SG of 100ml of each

1 1012
2 1021
3 1020
4 993
5 1045
6 1040

My conclusions at this stage:
Note that this was in fact that a comparative test not a search for an ideal recipe.
Based of these results SPINACH is the clear winner.
I suspect the amount of nutrient per gram gives the superior fermenting power.
The reduced levels of No 5 and 6 reflect this.
I plan to refine this probably with bigger quantities of nutrients and on a larger scale.

If this extrapolates well, I suspect 50 to 60g of dehydrated spinach may be all that is required for a 25l wash. I will also trial a tomato one with more powder

I will be certainly planting spinach this year!


PS I have photos of different stages but did not want to block up the forum at this stage
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Sam. » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:57 am

Chuck the pics up mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Will be interesting to see if any taste comes out off the still :think:
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:04 am

Ok will do The 4litre ferment is a bit small to run.

I will do a 25 l one and run that for the taste test.

I will probably end up combining all the test washes for a cocktail run after boosting with a bit of extra yeast and dap to ferment them all dry. to avoid wasting the ingredients
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:02 pm

Start stage
Tomato
start1.jpg
Green Pea
start2.jpg
Bok Choy
start3.jpg
Spinach
start4.jpg
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:16 pm

Premix done
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:19 pm

Ready to start
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:21 pm

After 2 hours
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:23 pm

No lab coat for me this is my distilling mixing outfit!
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby InglisHill » Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:18 pm

Top stuff T. Top stuff indeed!
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby bayshine » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:20 pm

Good experiment ted :handgestures-thumbupleft:
And good to see you've come out aswell :handgestures-thumbupleft: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby 1 2many » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:25 pm

Interesting experiment mate good stuff, :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby 1 2many » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:47 pm

Another ingredient that would have been good in the experiment would of be Kale.

A previous member I believe made a successful wash out of Kale. Just a thought. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby wynnum1 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:03 am

How about Amaranth spinach does not grow well in warm climate areas .

https://www.edenseeds.com.au/?name=Prod ... f-amaranth
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:08 pm

I had never hear of Amaranth until I looked it up. I see that is also known a Chinese spinach
It does not have the Vitamin A that Spinach and Kale do but has plenty of other good stuff. It is very high in manganese and zinc and has plenty of Vitamin B6 so could be interesting.

I work on the principle that if it is good for us humans the yeasties will also like it.

I suggest you have a crack at it.

I'll get the gardener to order some seeds on her next round and I'll try that too.
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:11 pm

I finally pulled the bung on the Spinach wash today. Final SG was 990 the driest I have ever had a ferment go.

Stage 1 of the experiment is done I will now try a full size wash
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:14 pm

One thing I have found is how well these washes clear

On the right is the spinach on the left is the "cocktail" one

In the left one a faint orange tinge is discernable from the tomato

Both had a very small amount of "fairy dust" added to assist in clearing

wash_cleared.jpg
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby 1 2many » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:43 pm

Looking forward to the results of the full wash, interested to here if the spinach flavor caries over. :-B
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby 1 2many » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:23 pm

Do you have any updates Teddy, keen for your results. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby Teddysad » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:38 pm

Next week for a full couple of ferments
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Re: Was Popeye Correct?

Postby 1 2many » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:42 pm

:!! Any news Ted, you should have that distilled by now :-B
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