Teddy's Fast Fermenting Vodka (FFV) Discussion

[Bundaboy]

I did suggest a different blade in a previous post

"This does work well at getting air into the wash, maybe try a different blade on the Bamix." Remember?

No! I completely missed that! In any case it was only by sheer chance I came across the other blades (I had no idea there was an "aerating" blade)- I bought this thing about 30 years ago (and hardly ever used it) - it's a m100 model and considered "vintage". I had forgotten I even had it, it's not like me to buy "genuine" articles.

Don't worry the references in my previous post were to the Three Stooges and completely aimed at me I assure you.

Anyway, this time I have it wrapped in a "space blanket" on a heat pad with a digital thermometer tracking the temperature.

I am afraid I may have pitched the yeast at too high a temperature (it was about to overflow a 2 litre jug so I went for it at 40ish) - it started well but has now settled into what I normally get - well we'll see. (This is a sigle 23L ferment to test the principle).

[Bundaboy]

I meant to write "car sunshade" above - I have a space blanket, both loaned from a neighbour, but the car sunshade seemed thicker and was a good fit.

My digital thermometer read 29C when I had it all wrapped and 24 hours later has dropped to 25C (it's on a heat mat), ambient temp = 12C.

It doesn't seem to be fermenting any more vigorously than normal so it would seem I have done something else wrong, maybe I pitched at too high a temperature.

I bought 4 more sunshades today and will put on another wash tomorrow maybe two as it looks like being a rainy day again. This time I will be a bit more careful with the pitching temp.

Has anyone tried using the effervescent vitamin tablets? - more expensive but convenient - a pity they are "flavoured".

[Peregian]

Has anyone tried using the effervescent vitamin tablets? - more expensive but convenient - a pity they are "flavoured".

Maybe chocolate or caramel would be nice, bit of background flavor.

Doing SG readings, if the SG has dropped by a significant amount in the first 24 hours it will most often finish in the 3 - 4 days.

You have covered most of the variables so should finish quickly, just a thought, are you using the stick blinder after the yeast is added, I usually use the stick till the wash looks a light cream color with lots of foam on top.

[Bundaboy]

All they had was lemon orange and berry, I wish I had bought some now - experimentation is good - but I would just like to nut this one out first.

I am not happy with the vitamin tablets I am using, I don't think it matters too much but they are the type that have that hard plasticy coating on them.

Once again I forgot to take a start sg reading, I suppose I just think as long as it eventually it gets under 1.00 it's good, and so far my final yield has been what you would expect. Next one I will not fail to take it so I can follow it through - it may shed some light on what is happening.

In the mean time I will take a reading in the morning and compare it to the theoretical start sg of 1.067.

Yes, definitely after the yeast pitch which was very active BTW, I use a 2L bowl and it was about to over flow that (which is why I may have pitched too early) I stirred that in and then began to aerate which looked good. I had a good froth built up and I was getting quite excited but it quickly dissipated. However there was a very good fizz going on and this was just minutes after pitching - it was bubbling through the airlock almost immediately.

I must say, I felt I was getting diminishing returns as I was continuing to aerate and this may have been due to trying to get the blade in a position to minimise splash (I hadn't found the proper blade at this stage). By Christ I made a mess as I thought I had it all under control but it was all sneaking out under the lid I was holding over the top of it - aaa dear, what fun.

When I awoke this morning there was a good sniff of the ferment about and I thought it may have puked (I had put the lid on tight and meant to check it before I went to bed but forgot). It hadn't but I suspect that some of the froth had hit the lid, which would be something as this is a 30l fermenter.

BTW I had a pH of 5.5, that pH meter you put me on to is a little beauty - very easy to use.

Oh and I had meant to bring this up - when doing a TPW the tomato paste stays pretty well suspended in the wash, but the bran in this recipe soon settles to the bottom - I assume this is normal?

I bought some natural bran (Ted's advice) today from woolies just to compare and make sure my stock bran is up to par.

I replaced the overload protector in the little freezer that I WAS going to make a heater cabinet out of and it is working fine now so I am going to put my 20kg bag of bran in it for a week - there aren't that many weevils in it but that should clear them all out (or at least kill them).

PS I wrapped the sunshade a little more tightly and completely two hours ago and the temp has gone back up to 27C so that's pretty good.

Cheers.

[Teddysad]

Bran at the bottom is fine ( and normal) It actually rises and falls through the ferment with the CO2 action.
I crush the Vitamin tablets ( I have a mortar and pestle). Between a couple of spoons will do it. That coating breaks down and is fine.

Re the critters in your bran Yes the cold will dispose of them. Quire frankly they will stay in the settled trub at the end and not make enough difference to the ferment to worry about.

[Bundaboy]

Well SG this morning is 1.03 - so if my start SG calculation is right, it's about half way there after 1-1/2 days. I would expect it to slow down as it will be cooler (about 25C

What *I* would regard as "toasty warm" inside the sunshade too, so that works well, but I still need to work out a cost effective way of having 4 on the go at one time - I can't convince myself the mats are worth the money they charge - there has to be a cheaper way, perhaps the old electric blanket will do the trick but I would like a more water proof solution especially considering I will be trapping the heat more than I was. I would like some arrangement that I can control with my controller so I can maintain any temperature I want - the mats don't allow that because they run too cool in my (winter) conditions.

(EDIT: having said all that, I took the opportunity whilst taking the SG to tape the temp probe on to the side of the fermenter and it's reading 29C! I can't believe how well these sunshades work! They (HBS) should sell fermenter sleeves/gloves out of the same stuff that you can just slip over).

There were more weevil floaties than I expected, but they don't bother me much - they have been boiled for 1/2 hour (and so sterile) and will be filtered out when racked (through cheese cloth) and then distilled twice so I doubt there will be anything nasty in the spirit.

I am more concerned with them eating all the bran over time so it's best to kill them and this seems a good way to do it - I may even decide to toss this batch (it is only $14/kg after all) and just use this as a test of the freeze process.

[Bundaboy]

Just an update on the second ferment, this time using the "proper" blade in the blender.

I have to say it was no more successful than with the blending blade, this time it was downright dangerous as the electric blanket I am using as a heating pad got absolutely soaked. This is with the lid over the top to try and catch the splash.

I will have to give up on this method as I don't see how, with a 23l wash in a 25l "open" style fermenter the spray can be contained - I have tried every angle possible, with every trick I could come up with, but the wash just goes every where - the speed of the blade is just way too vigorous. If, as everyone who uses this method seems to highlight, the blade has to cut the surface (which makes perfect sense) then there is bound to be spray, I can't see how it can be avoided.

If this step is absolutely essential then I shall just have to be content with a longer ferment.

[Bundaboy]

ooookaaay, this one did take off, so much so I had to loosen the lid as the liquid in the air lock was spurting out - had a peek - nice foam forming.

Only thing different with this one was I was a bit more careful with the pitching temp - just under 40C.

...but I forgot to take a starting SG again...

[Professor Green]

There's a couple of things you could try bundaboy.

Maybe 3/4 fill your fermenter, aerate with your bamix then add the remaining water and pitch your yeast or get yourself a 30l fermenter; 23 litres in a 25 litre container does not give you much headroom at all.
If you're filling your fermenter from the tap, use a trigger nozzle set to jet spray and squirt it straight down into the wash, it'll aerate it nicely.
Use an air pump and a stainless steel diffuser to inject oxygen into the wash

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

[Bundaboy]

There's a couple of things you could try bundaboy.

Maybe 3/4 fill your fermenter, aerate with your bamix then add the remaining water and pitch your yeast or get yourself a 30l fermenter; 23 litres in a 25 litre container does not give you much headroom at all.
If you're filling your fermenter from the tap, use a trigger nozzle set to jet spray and squirt it straight down into the wash, it'll aerate it nicely.
Use an air pump and a stainless steel diffuser to inject oxygen into the wash

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

No it's not much headroom at all, but to fill my boiler I need at least three (and four would be better) fermenters (unless I do them in series which is time consuming) - buying 4 new large fermenters is a bit of a reach for me at this stage - not to mention where to store everything, OTOH there seems to be a number of advantages in doing so.

My first ferment (in this batch) was 30L - same problem - I think it's more to do with the fact that they are straight sided fermenters so there is nothing to catch the spray.

My understanding was that I needed to do the aerating AFTER pitching the yeast, but I was going to ask if it's reasonable to pitch the yeast at half full, aerate, and then top up.

I like the idea of trigger nozzle if it is reasonable to aerate BEFORE pitch - it is hot water of course but I would probably get away with it.

I'm a bit interested in the ss diffuser too - I will investigate.

Thanks Professor - some good suggestions.

[Bundaboy]

Whoo hoo! The second ferment is really rocking along - very reminiscent of a 48 hour turbo I once used. I could see this finishing in 3 days for sure.

The question is why? Does 2-3 degrees pitching temp make such a difference? Or is it this one used Woolies natural bran instead of weevil affected stock bran?

Curious.

(Oh and *please* don't tell me it's because I used the right Bamix blade ha ha ha ha - sob...).

[Professor Green]

I can't really comment on this particular wash but for TPW and WBAB, I always dissolve the ingredients in hot water then top up with filtered cold water from the tap. This is both my aeration and cooling process and usually brings the wash close to pitching temp. The wash is therefore aerated before pitching and I've not had any issues.

You could try adjusting the recipe to make 20 litres rather than 23 and live with the smaller yield too.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.

[wynnum1]

Aeration is only needed to increase the population of yeast if using big quantity like bakers yeast in tpw not going to be a big benefit not sure with dry yeast if you need oxygen to get started.

[Peregian]

(Oh and *please* don't tell me it's because I used the right Bamix blade ha ha ha ha - sob...).

No we won't tell you that.........................but maybe the blade change has solved all your problems, can't wait for the next episode. Now what episode number are we up to? lol

[Bundaboy]

(Oh and *please* don't tell me it's because I used the right Bamix blade ha ha ha ha - sob...).

No we won't tell you that.........................but maybe the blade change has solved all your problems, can't wait for the next episode. Now what episode number are we up to? lol

This was just the pilot... ;-)

[Gavhancox]

Put down 3 60 lt washes on the w/e 2 took off like a rocket, the other stalled for some reason, so next day I added a bit of heat tossed more yeast at it and give it a good stir, the lazy bugger then took off. Got me stuffed why the third one stalled as they were done identically.

[Bundaboy]

I put the first ferment on Thursday night - Monday morning SG is below 1.00.

I would say that's mission accomplished.

Outside temperature was 3C overnight and my digital thermometer says the sunshade wrapped fermenter went down to 23C (it's now at 26C). That's not bad.

As this one did NOT "take off like a rocket" and simply went about it's merry way I think it is safe to say that it was all about temperature.

Thanks to all who helped me get to this stage, especially to Peregian and the man himself Teddy - what a great recipe!

That was quite a turn around between the previous ferment and this one - 3 1/2 weeks down to 3 1/2 days. Hard to believe.

Now if only I can get the aeration process right...

[Bundaboy]

Put down 3 60 lt washes on the w/e 2 took off like a rocket, the other stalled for some reason, so next day I added a bit of heat tossed more yeast at it and give it a good stir, the lazy bugger then took off. Got me stuffed why the third one stalled as they were done identically.

That's handy to know that you got it going again though, I will remember that, well done.

[scythe]

Have you thought about and aquarium heater instead of a heat pad.

[Bundaboy]

Have you thought about and aquarium heater instead of a heat pad.

I am not sure if you are asking that of me or not but for what it's worth, yes indeed I have, in fact I was given an old one but have yet to try it as I can't convince myself that I can sterilize it effectively or not - I will likely try it in a fermenter full of water though just to test the procedure - I don't want to cut a hole in the lid until I determine if it will work or not.

Of course a brand new heater would be a different matter but as I need 3 (preferably 4) washes to charge my 55L boiler I would need 4 of them if I want to do the ferment in parallel (which I do). A quick look at what's available shows that they aren't all that cheap considering what they are.

I will need to do something because I only have one heat pad (which now works fine having added the sunshade insulation) and the electric blanket I had been using is just not cutting it - the heat pad keeps the wash between 26 and 30C whereas the blanket 20 to 24C, besides which, I think the blanket represents a hazard in a number of ways.

I would like to build a 4 fermenter heating cabinet, possibly using a hairdryer connected to my STC - but I never seem to have the time!

I bought 4 sunshades for $5 each from Big W and they work great!