Teddy's Fast Fermenting Vodka (FFV) Discussion

[Bundaboy]

Not sure about weevils but used to get moths and their larva in my cracked corn.
Into the fermenter they go with 30 liters of boiling water. Seemed to slow their breeding right down. :))
I also use diatomaceous earth now on my 40 kg bags if its not going to get used quickly. Stops em dead.

Edit. Wonder if it would be feasible to fill the corn barrel with co2 from the ferment via a tube to exclude oxygen and suffocate the little bastardos?

I am pretty sure weevils are the moth larvae, certainly one turned into a moth in one of my containers...

Can you give the ratio of diatomaceous earth to Bran that you use?

[Peregian]

Bundaboy, just did an SG reading on one wash and it is already down from 1.070 to 1.020 in about 21 hours. All 4 fermenters are still warm. (could be ready in 2 days at this rate lol)

I am thinking either the warm wash or the type of vitamin tablet are speeding things along.

The vitamins I use are "CENOVIS Multivitamins and Minerals", came in a VALUE PACK of 200 tablets. I crush each tablet between 2 spoons.

[Bundaboy]

Bundaboy, just did an SG reading on one wash and it is already down from 1.070 to 1.020 in about 21 hours. All 4 fermenters are still warm. (could be ready in 2 days at this rate lol)

I am thinking either the warm wash or the type of vitamin tablet are speeding things along.

The vitamins I use are "CENOVIS Multivitamins and Minerals", came in a VALUE PACK of 200 tablets. I crush each tablet between 2 spoons.

Thanks for that.

Interesting, it is starting to look like temperature IS a factor (well of course it is always a factor but in this case even more so), I normally pitch at no higher than 32C.

Ok, I am using EssentialHealth One-a-day Men's 25 essential vitamins and mineral supplement.

I would be surprised if that difference is a game breaker but you never know.

I started off crushing them in a mortar and pestle but reverted to the old fashioned between tea spoons method about 5 ferments ago - much easier and quicker.

The other thing is I don't tend to take SG readings until the ferment stops bubbling.

What do you normally finish at?

[Peregian]

Finish most of the time around SG 0.980

[Peregian]

Bundaboy, the 4 washes have almost finished in 3 days, SG 1.000, so just a tad to go and I am sure by the end of 4 days they will be done.

Temp of each wash is now at about 19deg C.

The yeast did most of the heavy lifting in the first 24 hours getting the SG down to 1.020 from 1.070

With your next wash try.....................

(1) Add sugar to fermenter.

(2) Add dap, epsom salts, citric acid and vitamin tablet on top of sugar.

(3) Add about 8 - 9 liters of your hottest tap water, I get mine from the laundry as it bypasses the hot water service tempering valve. Stir lots to dissolve all.

(4) Now add the cooked up bran.

(5) With the final water top up try to keep the wash temp above 36deg C and below 40deg C for the yeast pitch.

Be very interested to read about your next results.

[WTDist]

One thing i did and i dont know if your boilers can do it if they are keg. but with the T500 i would put all the ingredients in the boiler with some water and boil it for a while, not a vigorous boil, enough to get everything simmered for about 30 mins or so then i poured this hot stuff in the fermenter, toped up with water as cold as i could get and if or when the temp was right i would pitch the yeast. The fermenter was usually just below 40 degrees when i added water so yeast went in fairly soon and i found this heat moved things along in early stages as temp slowly dropped. This was for a WB wash but same principle could apply here, simmer all ingredients for a while together inverting sugar.

[Bundaboy]

Bundaboy, the 4 washes have almost finished in 3 days, SG 1.000, so just a tad to go and I am sure by the end of 4 days they will be done.

Temp of each wash is now at about 19deg C.

The yeast did most of the heavy lifting in the first 24 hours getting the SG down to 1.020 from 1.070

With your next wash try.....................

(1) Add sugar to fermenter.

(2) Add dap, epsom salts, citric acid and vitamin tablet on top of sugar.

(3) Add about 8 - 9 liters of your hottest tap water, I get mine from the laundry as it bypasses the hot water service tempering valve. Stir lots to dissolve all.

(4) Now add the cooked up bran.

(5) With the final water top up try to keep the wash temp above 36deg C and below 40deg C for the yeast pitch.

Be very interested to read about your next results.

Thanks once again Peregian for your very detailed instructions, there are a few "variations" on what I do - I usually add the hot water to the sugar and fully dissolve THEN add dap epsom citric and MV tablet, so I will try your method in the next couple of days. Also I usually (impatiently) wait for the temp to come down to 30-32 before pitch so this time I will pitch at the higher temp.

My tap water will be 50C-60C which should be hot enough? If not I could add some boiling water.

I will also forego the aerator paddle/drill step in favour of, if I can borrow or find one, a bamix or equivalent.

This time I will take daily SG readings as well (or at least after day 2).

Wish me luck. I will report back in due course.

[Bundaboy]

One thing i did and i dont know if your boilers can do it if they are keg. but with the T500 i would put all the ingredients in the boiler with some water and boil it for a while, not a vigorous boil, enough to get everything simmered for about 30 mins or so then i poured this hot stuff in the fermenter, toped up with water as cold as i could get and if or when the temp was right i would pitch the yeast. The fermenter was usually just below 40 degrees when i added water so yeast went in fairly soon and i found this heat moved things along in early stages as temp slowly dropped. This was for a WB wash but same principle could apply here, simmer all ingredients for a while together inverting sugar.

It could be done in my keg (with my temp controller there would be no risk of burning on the element I think) but cleaning is such a bastard with this keg arrangement (something for newcomers to take note) I am loathe to try it.

However I DO have an old fashioned laundry boiler and if I used a large ss pot to create a double boiler I reckon it could be done. Something for me to consider.

The aforementioned is something I have been considering for a small pot still or stripping still down the track.

I wonder if anyone has every tried creating a double boiler for a still before?

The main issue is does it get hot enough? - I think it would.

[Bundaboy]

Ok, I have deferred fermenting due to cold weather and the fact I have been *under* the weather, but a recent "warm" spell has spurred me on to putting a "Peregian" version on and an hour or so in it is bubbling away nicely - hopefully I will add 2 more over the next couple of days.

[Peregian]

Bundaboy, how did your latest batch go, did it finish in 4 days?

[Bundaboy]

Bundaboy, how did your latest batch go, did it finish in 4 days?

I was going to check it in the morning as it is still bubbling but you spurred me on to taking an SG reading.

On opening the lid it was obviously still fizzing away and an SG reading indicated 1.03 - I wouldn't trust that figure too much as there is, as I said, a fair amount of "spritz" in the wash (I did do the spin trick but with so much effervescence I don't know how effective that would be).

Going on that basis I calculate the ferment is about 60% through, and if fermentation is linear (not likely) that means another ~3 days.

Certainly having the higher yeast pitch temperature gets the ferment off to a flying start but as soon as the temperature drops off to room temperature (16-18C) the fermentation drops off to what I would estimate as being a "normal" fermenting rate.

If I could keep the wash temp up towards 30C I reckon I would have a good chance of 4 days - but as we in NSW now pay the highest electricity tariffs in the developed world...

PS: The first was was pitched at 38C, the second at 40C, and the third (by loss of concentration) at 42C. The latter really took off but a day later it seemed to have "stuck" but investigation showed the lock had been pushed out of the grommet so CO2 leaked out of the seal.

I think I'll invest in a decent immersion heater for the next experiment.

[Bundaboy]

I meant to write last night that the SG remains at 1.03 with a good bubble every 10 seconds or so

Today the bubbling appeared to have stopped. Tonight the SG is down to 1.02, it is still fizzing away and the stopped bubbling appears to be due to a loose grommet - I have real problems with the HBS grommets and the s-type airlocks, they seem better suited to the 3-piece airlocks.

Anyway, it looks like another 3 days for that one, making 9 days in all - pretty much same as last time.

I am interested in the 3rd of these ferments. This was pitched at 42C and it is on a heat mat.

It is still bubbling away strongly on it's 4th day. If it slows tomorrow I will take an SG reading.

All in all though my results are pretty consistent - about 9-11 days.

[Nino]

One way to ferment in winter is to use an aquarium heater in the wash to keep it warm. I am on my second wash of this and it is fermenting out in 5 days and a couple of days to clear.
Put my third wash on Sunday and it should be done by Friday and do a strip run on Sunday if I get time after the spirit run. :)

I will be using 5 plates and a 500mm packed section, this will be my first spirit run with this set up.

[Bundaboy]

One way to ferment in winter is to use an aquarium heater in the wash to keep it warm. I am on my second wash of this and it is fermenting out in 5 days and a couple of days to clear.
Put my third wash on Sunday and it should be done by Friday and do a strip run on Sunday if I get time after the spirit run. :)

I will be using 5 plates and a 500mm packed section, this will be my first spirit run with this set up.

Hmmm, yes but that implies you are doing three (as I do) washes (which is the minimum I need to have enough low wines to do a spirit run) in sequence. I do mine in parallel so if they each take 11 days, then that's still faster than doing 3 x 5 day ferments in sequence.

But yes, it seems to get the fast ferment you need to keep the wash reasonably warm. Doing that for three ferments in parallel is, for me, probably not economically viable. However the real issue for me is to find out if I CAN do it in 3-4 days so I will be doing an experiment in the near future with an immersible heater.

I think the MASTER plan for me in the future is to do huge ferments in warm weather conditions so I have enough stock to get me through the winter.

Good luck with your spirit run, let us know how it turns out. Cheers and thanks for the advice.

[Bundaboy]

8th day and still at 1.02... but still fizzing along...

[Peregian]

Must be just too cold in your area, the last 4 washes I did had finished in 72 hours and I have now stripped in 2 lots producing about 16 liters ready for the reflux still.

All 4 fermenters were very close together on a coffee table with a thick wooden top so they were off the floor and had a good insulated base under them, I did remove the air locks this time so I could get them better warped up in the insulated sleeping bag. As all the fermenters were close together on the table it may have added to the thermal mass.

From memory I think the washes were at about SG 1.02 in the first 24 hours.

If I can talk the cook into buying another 16KG of sugar I will try and replicate the results but it has turned cold up this way, just 4 Deg C this morning.

[Bundaboy]

Must be just too cold in your area, the last 4 washes I did had finished in 72 hours and I have now stripped in 2 lots producing about 16 liters ready for the reflux still.

All 4 fermenters were very close together on a coffee table with a thick wooden top so they were off the floor and had a good insulated base under them, I did remove the air locks this time so I could get them better warped up in the insulated sleeping bag. As all the fermenters were close together on the table it may have added to the thermal mass.

From memory I think the washes were at about SG 1.02 in the first 24 hours.

If I can talk the cook into buying another 16KG of sugar I will try and replicate the results but it has turned cold up this way, just 4 Deg C this morning.

Wow that's pretty cool for up there.

Yeah I have mine up on a table sitting on an electric blanket with plastic over the top, to be honest I have tried it with and without the electric blanket with almost identical results.

I have one on a heat mat this time that has not been turned off - still bubbling after 6 days (I haven't taken an sg on that one yet.

I should say though that I started doing this recipe last summer so it can't just be temperature unless the temp needs to be 30c+.

To be honest there are so many variables, water, type of dap, vitamins, citric, epsom salts, all could be a problem - I haven't a way of taking a pH reading for instance, I am just doing the 1/2 teaspoon thing.

[Peregian]

This morning I put down 4 new washes with just 2 changes from the last lot.................

(1) Cut the bran back to 250g

(2) Reduced the wash temperature to 31deg C before pitching the yeast, I usually pitch at 36 - 40deg C
I thought it would be a good experiment to see if the lower start temperature increases the time it takes to finish.

Starting SG 1.060 (same as last time)

PH. 6.1

Wash temp 31deg C ( well down from last time)

Room Temp 18-19deg C

Removed the airlocks to make it easier to wrap the 4 fermenters is an old sleeping bag.

The last 4 washes finished in 72 hours, this one should take longer, maybe 73 hours. lol

[Bundaboy]

This morning I put down 4 new washes with just 2 changes from the last lot.................

(1) Cut the bran back to 250g

(2) Reduced the wash temperature to 31deg C before pitching the yeast, I usually pitch at 36 - 40deg C
I thought it would be a good experiment to see if the lower start temperature increases the time it takes to finish.

Starting SG 1.060 (same as last time)

PH. 6.1

Wash temp 31deg C ( well down from last time)

Room Temp 18-19deg C

Removed the airlocks to make it easier to wrap the 4 fermenters is an old sleeping bag.

The last 4 washes finished in 72 hours, this one should take longer, maybe 73 hours. lol

LOL, well mine are pretty consistent too, I have great hopes of the first fermenter finishing tomorrow ~240 hours.

My guess is that the higher starting temp helps in getting the ferment going rapidly but once it has cooled to the average temperature it will be fairly predictable so your guess of 73 hours is probably pretty spot on - I'll say 74.

(BTW you are using table sugar right?)

(LOL you can do 3 ferments in the time that I can do 1 :=()

[Peregian]

Yes it is white table sugar, the cheaper home brand type.