G’day - t500 lid strength

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G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby BlindXX » Fri May 04, 2018 10:22 pm

Hi, I'm a relatively new distiller in the UK. I've been using an airstill but the runs are just too long when you'v e got 25l to get through. I'm currently buying a modular still (piece by piece from china - all ss304 2" tri clamp) but the boiler is giving me issues. A 25l pot from china works out about the same as a t500 boiler over here, and I'd rather use the t500 (no direct contact of heating element, all wired for UK). My only concern is the weight that the lid can take. I'm looking at about 1m column, with a reflux condensor and product condensor. Colummn packing will be ss and copper scrubbies. Any advice will be very much appreciated.
Thanks.
Last edited by Sam. on Fri May 04, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Sam. » Fri May 04, 2018 11:05 pm

Welcome here mate, not sure what you have available in the UK but a few more details could help :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby BlindXX » Sat May 05, 2018 1:18 am

Hi there. TBH, we have very little here in the uk. Smartstill products or nothing from HBS. auction sites have some all in one stills, but I don't know how much I trust them. The only other option is www.5stardistilling.com.au, but its really expensive. Similar products as 5 Star is selling, but from EU. I was considering a full t500 kit but as I want both a pot still and reflux still, I think modular is the way to go. I'm just sourcing the bits from Ali Express. Gin is my thing, with a view to trying some rum soon. I have an airstill which is ideal for small batch flavouring, but stripping 25l takes forever! Add on the spirit runs and it's just too much time. The boiler is pretty much the last item I need to source for my larger still, I'm just worried that the lid of the t500 (with a 2" tri clamp adaptor) isn't man enough for the job. I'm hoping to have a 70cm 2" column topped with a dephleg, then two bends (90 and 45 degree) leading to a 45cm product condenser and parrot. I have no idea of the total weight as I only have three parts at the moment, I'm just hoping someone has a similar setup and can advise!
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby The Stig » Sat May 05, 2018 6:18 am

I would say the lid will hold the weight.
Your real problem will be stability, it’s going to be unbeliviebly top heavy and once your boiler starts to empty she might just fall over.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Professor Green » Sat May 05, 2018 9:28 am

I ran a 2" stainless boka (MacBoka) on top of my T500 which was roughly 1.5M long and had no issues with the boiler so I think you'll be fine for weight.

I agree with Stig on the stability; I think it will definitely topple over as the condenser and associated bits add a weight offset which the T500 boiler will not be able to counter once the liquid level drops. It would be better to use a 180 deg bend into your product condenser as it will bring the weight closer in to the centre of the boiler.

For your pot still set up, have a look at my small pot still set up here: https://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10461 and here: http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9212. I chose a "pelican" style set up deliberately to deal with the offset issue and it is very stable especially I'm now using a slightly longer piece of TC pipe in the first section.

Cheers,
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby BlindXX » Sat May 05, 2018 8:19 pm

Unfortunately I don't as yet have the required permissions to view the files attached to the links, but I understand totally what you mean. So if I were to use the 45+90 bend in strip mode with no column and a 180 for reflux I should be ok? I know I could just use the 180 for everything and not run reflux but it will make collection a bit easier on the stripping runs if I can run the still out a bit to a larger collection vessel. Thanks to everyone for all the advice - the stability was something I somehow managed to miss (i think it was all the shiny still fittings distracted me).
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Professor Green » Sat May 05, 2018 9:16 pm

Hmm that's weird, as far as I know any member can view images; perhaps The Stig will confirm this.

I think having the product condenser hanging off at a 45 deg angle will still be enough to upset the balance. I'll try to describe my set up for you. From the lid of the boiler and following the vapour path it goes: 45 deg => 300mm Straight => 180 deg => Product Condenser => 2" x 3/4 reducer. This gives you something that looks like a pelican.

You can use a small section of 3/4 TC pip to extend output far enough away from the still for a larger vessel. This won't add to much offset weight.

I can't comment on running a reflux column as you described it but i think toppling will still be an issue. A boka design may be the best option for you for neutral if you want to use the T500 boiler.

Cheers,
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby BlindXX » Sat May 05, 2018 10:25 pm

What I should have done is used my brain a bit and given a visual example! If you go to 5 star website and go to the modular section, they have a 2" potstill column. That's exactly what I'm aiming for, just with a reflux condensor on top of the pipe, right before the first bend (and a 45degree bend instead of a 90 but I'll forgo that now I think). Incidentally, with the pics, I get a message in red saying "you don't be the required permissions to view the attached files" in the post. Don't know if that' s any help.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby The Stig » Sun May 06, 2018 6:44 am

Anybody and everybody can view pics.
@BlindXX, can you pm me with your browser, operating system and anything else you can think of please
Last edited by The Stig on Sun May 06, 2018 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Stevejb » Sun May 06, 2018 9:34 am

Professor Green wrote:I ran a 2" stainless boka (MacBoka) on top of my T500 which was roughly 1.5M long and had no issues with the boiler so I think you'll be fine for weight.

I agree with Stig on the stability; I think it will definitely topple over as the condenser and associated bits add a weight offset which the T500 boiler will not be able to counter once the liquid level drops. It would be better to use a 180 deg bend into your product condenser as it will bring the weight closer in to the centre of the boiler.

For your pot still set up, have a look at my small pot still set up here: https://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10461 and here: http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9212. I chose a "pelican" style set up deliberately to deal with the offset issue and it is very stable especially I'm now using a slightly longer piece of TC pipe in the first section.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.


Prof Geen can you tell me where you got the 45 degree from? I'm looking at getting the 5 Star 2" pot still in a few weeks but can't find any 2" 45 degrees bends on their website. I would like to mount it on my T500 boiler.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 06, 2018 3:46 pm

Hi Steve,

I got them at 5 Star - right here. Ignore the fact that the site reports them as out of stock and give Sue a call tomorrow as the site doesn't always reflect the true nature of reality.

Don't forget you'll need the T500 adapter too. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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2" TC still heads on a T500 Boiler.

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 06, 2018 5:50 pm

OK, I had a spare half hour or so this afternoon so I thought I'd try some things with the T500 Boiler and a bunch of 2" TC fittings to see just what the stability was like depending on the configuration.

Things to note:
  1. This was done with an empty T500 boiler using the alembic dome as that is what I had handy. I doubt using the standard lid will change things.
  2. This was also done without any plumbing or water flowing through the condensers which may have some bearing on these results.

Reflux set up
First up was a 2" reflux column consisting of the following:
  • 600mm Packed section (from a macboka)
  • Reflux condenser (from a macboka)
  • 180 Deg elbow
  • 400mm Product condenser
  • 2" x 3/4" Reducer
  • 3/4" 45 Deg elbow
  • 3/4" x 200mm Straight pipe

Reflux.jpg

I, quite surprisingly, found this to be very stable. no amount of bumping the column could get it to topple. The still head wobbled ever so slightly due to a small amount of flexing of the lid but don't think this is cause for concern.

Basic Pot Still
Next was a very simple 2" pot set up with the PC at a 45 deg angle:
  • 90 Deg elbow
  • 45 Deg elbow
  • 400mm Product condenser
  • 2" x 3/4" Reducer


Pot1.jpg

In this configuration, the unit was reasonably stable however I can say from experience that the addition of plumbing and weight of water flowing though the PC does upset the stability somewhat especially towards the end of the run where the boiler is not so full. From memory, it only required a slight nudge in the right direction for the boiler to start tipping.

Pelican Pot Still
This is a 2" TC implementation of the popular pelican style pot made up of the following:
  • 45 Deg elbow
  • 300mm Straight pipe
  • 180 Deg elbow
  • 400mm Product condenser
  • 2" x 3/4" Reducer
  • 3/4" x 200mm Straight pipe

Pot2.jpg

The stability of this configuration is superb. I run this config on an even lighter boiler than the T500 and can confirm that the addition of plumbing and water in the PC does not upset the stability at all. As with the reflux set up, there is a little flexing in the lid due to the weight of the still but I think it is not really enough to be concerned about.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby The Stig » Sun May 06, 2018 6:06 pm

I’m envious of your setup there Professor :mrgreen:
My T500 boiler doesn’t have the big “foot” that yours has, I believe my boiler would be less stable than yours .
Looks like they changed the base later in the run as mine was a very early version.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Stevejb » Sun May 06, 2018 6:15 pm

Professor Green wrote:Hi Steve,

I got them at 5 Star - right here. Ignore the fact that the site reports them as out of stock and give Sue a call tomorrow as the site doesn't always reflect the true nature of reality.

Don't forget you'll need the T500 adapter too. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers,
Prof. Green.


Thanks Prof Green
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 06, 2018 6:28 pm

Stevejb wrote:
Professor Green wrote:Hi Steve,

I got them at 5 Star - right here. Ignore the fact that the site reports them as out of stock and give Sue a call tomorrow as the site doesn't always reflect the true nature of reality.

Don't forget you'll need the T500 adapter too. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers,
Prof. Green.


Thanks Prof Green


You're welcome mate.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 06, 2018 6:33 pm

The Stig wrote:I’m envious of your setup there Professor :mrgreen:
My T500 boiler doesn’t have the big “foot” that yours has, I believe my boiler would be less stable than yours .
Looks like they changed the base later in the run as mine was a very early version.


Hehe, it is a good set up. I could use just a little more room but the way things are currently laid out is working really well for me.

The foot looks bigger in the picture than it actually is. The angle of the shot doesn't show the flare on the base very well. That boiler is a coupe of years old now and never really gets used except ans an URN on the odd occasion!

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby The Stig » Sun May 06, 2018 6:43 pm

Mine doesnt flare at all, just straight down
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby Professor Green » Sun May 06, 2018 6:53 pm

The Stig wrote:Mine doesnt flare at all, just straight down


Ah OK. I guess the diameter of the base would determine if it would still be stable enough for the pelican and the column setups above.

Cheers,
Prof. Green.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby BlindXX » Sun May 06, 2018 7:41 pm

@The Stig - pictures all seem to be showing now. It may have just been a mobile browser issue. @Prof Green - thanks, those pictures are really helpful (and exactly what I was after). Looks like I'll be going with the t500 boiler for now. Many thanks for all the help and advice.
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Re: G’day - t500 lid strength

Postby woodduck » Sun May 06, 2018 7:49 pm

Great write up Professor :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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