Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

I did not know about Bi Carb...Brewster, Good idea...I will give it a go...thanks mate.
Doc

Yummyrum wrote:Cheers Doc . Didn't know you could re-use :handgestures-thumbupleft:

And welcome Brewster :handgestures-thumbupleft: ........share the knowledge

Something that's always bugged me .....obviously carbon filtering removes the smelly tails but does it remove heads ?
In the gradual transition from Turbos and low performance reflux still to TPWs and better stills and learning cuts ,I have somehow missed the missing heads bit

One thing is for sure yummy... carbon will never replace conservative cuts...there is only one way to ensure you do not drink heads and tails.... cut like a samurai swordsman. No filter can remove bad cuts. Hey why distil if you can't drink better than your non distilling mates. Cut hard and drink like a king mate.
Doc

Agree Doc ,just thinking back to beginning days when I did the 50ml cut and we drunk all the rest .So I was filtering it but does the carbon remove any of the heads ? I remember the ABV dropped after I had run spirit through the carbon so obviously something was removed ,but was it just tails smell/taste

Yummy I think it definitely opens the cut by removing some of the smearing of both heads and tails...even so i do not use carbon for that reason... I make a lot of products that rely on their fragrance , such as Rose petal vodka, triple sec, fragrant bitters, orange and lemon tinctures, vapour infused gin etc... I cut very hard often as hard as 50% for tinctures...but there again I have built a business based on a reputation for pure and smooth spirit...also as long as I accurately record it in my run diary, any discards are not dutiable. I really believe that if you are to achieve the ultimate in quality...It is to be had in hard cutting (if we are talking neutral). That said I know I can be a bit obsessive, and probably cut harder than I need to. But it works for me. But I really do advocate filtering for all newcomers who are trying to achieve neutral...I still remember trying to achieve my first vodka... Carbon was the only way i could get it to be as clean as I wanted... I was hamstrung by a cheap still I bought at a HBS which really wasn't up to the job. I think that without carbon to cover my mistakes I probably would have given up...and boy would that have changed my life. Sometimes I think it good to remember those days, Hey if it weren't for carbon, I probably would not even be a distiller today. Cheers.
Doc

Can someone tell me why filtering takes place at 40 to 50% and not at higher abv? :think:

I can't explain why, other than the fact the it is chemistry in action.

The American Distilling Institute ran various experiments on this, and found that the optimal %ABV for alcohol to interact with carbon is 38%ABV. And you always treat it 2-4%ABV higher as it gets diluted with water which the carbon has been soaked in...(ie. put it in at 44% and it comes out at 40%, as an example)

I'd love to see some lab testing on standard TPW hearts before filtering and after filtering. It would be really interesting to see some chemical analysis from a lab on what we are actually tasting before and after.

I'm not convinced the expense is worth it for the average backyarder but Doc's passion on the topic makes me want a clinical answer based on some testing in lab conditions.

BackyardBrewer wrote:I'd love to see some lab testing on standard TPW hearts before filtering and after filtering. It would be really interesting to see some chemical analysis from a lab on what we are actually tasting before and after.

I'm not convinced the expense is worth it for the average backyarder but Doc's passion on the topic makes me want a clinical answer based on some testing in lab conditions.

:text-+1:

I wonder if there is any point doing it at higher abv for use in say fruit maturations?

BackyardBrewer wrote:I'd love to see some lab testing on standard TPW hearts before filtering and after filtering. It would be really interesting to see some chemical analysis from a lab on what we are actually tasting before and after.

I'm not convinced the expense is worth it for the average backyarder but Doc's passion on the topic makes me want a clinical answer based on some testing in lab conditions.

Very easily done mate ...there are a number of analytical labs who will do chromatography and a full molecular analysis...but be warned it is not cheap. Let me know how it goes. I just know it works based on taste and smell. A bit rough compared to real laboratory chemistry, but the way I have distilled for a few decades now. I have no doubt it works. The difference is evident if you simply compare pre and post filtration neutral. The difference is like the step between the last of the heads jars and the first of the hearts jars.

My passion for filtration is simply that it not be dismissed as it is an aid for newbies to achieve cleaner spirit. Cleaner spirit is better for you to drink, and is safer, especially until we have enough experience to be able to cut properly. And as for expense...filtration is cheap, buy the carbon once and simply boil and bake the same carbon forever.In fact for overall effectiveness for you're distilling dollar...there is no better value adjunct.

I really do not care if people filter or not...it is not my concern, it is more that we should not discourage those new to distilling from filtration. It can and does work for many. And is used by almost all commercial Vodka houses.

Cheers
Doc

I don't think anyone in this thread has been trying to look down on anyone filtering :think:

At the end of the day if you are happy with what you have from your cuts then do you need to filter? It's up to the individual but for me it is another expense but more importantly more of my time is used doing this and seeming I don't drink vodka I don't see the need.

Good discussion though, would be interesting to see lab results. Seem to remember in the compleat distiller they did a test between commercial vodka and home made and there was a quite noticeable difference.

Would also be good to know why that 38% is optimum :think:

I guess they did tests to determine the optimum abv...here we filter our pure 45% cut at 55% ABV but for rose petal extraction we do run Azeo through carbon...as any odor at all destroys the rose smell...it is just very delicate. As you say filtration is up to the distiller.
Doc

Thanks Doc exactly the guidance I was looking for. :handgestures-thumbupleft: I tried carbon filtering for shits and giggles my last run and I'd have to say just give it a go and like you said Doc if in doubt about its ability to remove odours and taste boil your carbon and take a sniff after use, or maybe im shit at cuts either way I was impressed.

I'm looking at a bag of this for my filtering.

http://www.watergroup.com/pdf-folder/br ... -57190.pdf

Should work fine, high surface area per gram

That pdf says 'standard packaging sizes of 25kg or 500kg which would be way too much.

I bought 1kg from here
http://www.truwater.com.au/replacement-water-filters/loose-water-filter-media/coconut-granular-activated-carbon-granules-gac-media-per-kg?cPath=64
& it's plenty

yeah but i think I can pick up a damaged bag up for $50

For what it's worth, I get my stuff from here:

http://www.clarencewaterfilters.com.au/ ... lter-Kits/

And as Doc mentioned, I've only bought it once :handgestures-thumbupleft:

An old thread I know..
Just wondering if you were to do no cuts at all (other than the first 150 ml of methanol of course) and you carbon filtered as I do using activated carbon, would the product be just as neutral or just as safe?
I know the T500 stills and similar never mention anything about cuts and save everything and just filter them. I'm just curious....
I actually make cuts AND filter because it's polishes my product better.

It wont remove heads so the headache remains. Believe me, I know and you don't want to drink that nail polish remover. I am brutal with my heads cut nowadays. If it tastes sweet at all I ditch it.

It will fix any mild tails that get mixed in though so long as you're not chucking in the horrible cloudy late run tails as well. That will gunk up your carbon fast. It will work but it will end up expensive to filter.
I just carbon filtered about 10 liters of 45% neutral through 600-650 ml of dry carbon over 3 days (drip, drip, drip) and still prefer it as it produces a hellava clean product which keeps the wife happy and less sober.

Like warra said. It will not remove those chemicals. the filter is to work with ethanol, removing heavier denser molecules so all those ones that boil off before ethanol that are smaller and lighter pass right on through into your drinking spirit.
This is why it removes tails, they are heavier.

As for methanol you will most likely get rid of more acetone in that first 150ml than methanol which will be present throughout heads. Methanol is not the only bad chemical in the production of ethanol. There are many by products that boil off and come out of the still before ethanol so this is why we do cuts, to remove what IS NO drinking solvent but JUST hangover material. Wont kill you in the beginning but if you don want to die of liver failure then make cuts asap