turbo 500 reflux still distillate tastes / ideas

[trig]

hey guys first post on this forum, did a first run on a turbo 500 reflux still, used 25 litres of store baught wash, only has 1 thermometer at the bottom ( why they removed the top thermometer i dont know) and i ran it at about 59 degrees ( water outlet temp)

took me about 4 hours once it was at boiling temp, got around 4.15 litres of 91.5% alcohol. throwing out 80 ml of foreshots, it had a definite YEASTY taste and smell to it, even after trying to filter it out, people on forums said i ran it to quick / let tails in to much, / wash i used was shit etc etc.

so i re ran that 4 litres again a week later ( watered down to 40%), this time getting water outlet temp to like 40 degrees to let it sit at 100% reflux for 10 mins then slowly lowered the water rate to increase the temp, til i started getting 1 drip a second, around 45 degrees, collecting cuts at 150 ~ ml a jar, got to around 500 ml for heads, then speed up a slight bit, was going really slow though trying not to make any mistakes, collected 700 ml jars for 2.5 litres then started doing fine cuts again, ended up putting around 500 ml of tails into my feints jar with the 500 ml of heads, final 150 ml tails jar had that definate " wet cardboard" smell to it, rest smelled pretty similar but was keeping in mind DONT BE GREEDY, so threw in another 400~ ml also of end tails into jar END temp was around 60 degrees on the water out temp before i stopped.

anyway took about 11 hours to do it all this is ridiculous time I know but i was going extremely slow trying to keep lowest temps possible ( i figured this would give best result) without ever really letting the distillate stop flowing at less than a drip a second until the end were the tails were, that slowed a bit to maybe 1 drip every 3 -4 seconds.

anyway let it all sit for a day with paper over the top to let it breathe, tasted the next day, to me its fine, its quite " neutral vodka ish with a slight sting / kick" to me with a taste of ... " candy sweetness? my brother said its a sweetness like a yeast sweet." even though it doesnt smell or taste of any yeast at all its just that type of sweetness.

Came out at 92.5% , slightly sweet smell / taste, AFTER carbon filtering twice it took away alot of that slight sweetness that was there, made it more neutral and smoother, still has a slight harshness on tounge / kick to it.. but not too bad compared to other 40% vodkas etc imo.

took a bottle of unfiltered round to friend who has a t500 still and been using for 3 years, they said to them it smelt like meths a bit.. i tasted theirs and it was distinctly different taste / smell. was more pleasant / smooth and had a different type of sweetness to it.. im not sure exactly what i should be aiming for, ive done a bit of research and they dont make ANY cuts on their runs, so just wondering what i should be trying to get in my neutral spirit here.. long read sorry bout that but thanks for responses in advance!

[Crankyyankee]

Never heard of store bought wash before. However look up tpw or ujsm washes in the recipe section. Do not use turbo yeast as it will cause bad taste and burn. Use bakers yeast or if you can find it in that part of the world use ec1118 yeast. The tpw is the best for neutral washes. I run the t500 at 55 to 60 degrees, takes around three hours to run .

[Muppet]

Gday mate. Your second effort doesn't sound too far off. A bit slow but kudos for being patient and putting the effort in.
I still use my t500 for neutrals though I prefer the TPW wash now. It takes a little longer to ferment but well worth it. I aim for a toothpick sized stream around 54-55deg, a run takes me around 4-5hrs, your cuts don't sound too bad this you will get better at with practice. With your 'yeasty taste' how are you filling the boiler? Most people rack the wash ( syphon from the top down) leaving the yeast cake at the bottom undisturbed. It's really worth trying TPW. Cheap, easy and it tasted better without even carbon filtering.
It's worth checking how accurate your thermo is too. Boiling water should read 100 deg :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[trig]

the wash that you buy from the shop ( i live in New Zealand ) is already filtered out doesn't need to be racked apparently, its fermented clear , can see to the bottom of the bucket has a yellow tint on it and is good to go so they say, just put straight into the boiler.

i have read on places that if you are taste testing your alc at 40% or watered down to about 20% it should be quite pleasant smelling / tasting. What i am wondering is what roughly that should smell taste be like? sweet?

the friend of mine who uses this turbo 500 still has been doing so for 3 years and doesn't make ANY CUTS which i find strange but i have tried her stuff and it is sweet on a different level, almost vanilla sweet ish.. yet doesn't have the same harshness as mine with making cuts, when she puts oak chips and essence in makes a quite nice bourbon .... so for making bourbon i can understand leaving some of your tails / heads whatever in for flavor similar to a pot still... but for making a neutral vodka i dont know if I have it wrong or she has it wrong, i don't want to really question her as she has done it for years with her husband and seems to have a system down to get what they want every time....

[Sam.]

For the wash are you using a "turbo" type yeast?

If so you will only get the product so clean even if you are doing your turbo carbon and turbo clear then carbon filtering.

Try runnings a cloudy Tomato Paste Wash and I can guarantee it will already be better than the turbo ;-)

If you do your cuts properly as well and run reasonably slow you should be good :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Sweetness is usually associated with the heads of the product, the worst part to drink as this is where hangover and headache city live :handgestures-thumbdown:

[Marbled]

I reckon I've had my t500 about as long as you, so I'm no expert, however, after a few Turbo runs, and finally a TPW I can say get onto TPW ASAP!

Even if you only look at the economics it makes sense (as well as better product)

Bakers yeast (Woolworth) enough for 3 1/2 washes. $4.40
Sugar 90c a kilo, (Woolworth or Aldi). 5kg. $4.50
Citric acid (Woolworth) enough for at least 25 washes. $2.20
Tomato paste (Woolworth) $1.80 per 200g

Total per 25 litre wash. $7.55

And I'll bet there's cheaper ways to buy than the supermarket.

[SBB]

Trig sounds like your mostly doing things right and have done enough research to be on the right track :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

( why they removed the top thermometer i dont know)

Cause its not needed.

then speed up a slight bit, was going really slow though trying not to make any mistakes, collected 700 ml jars for 2.5 litres then started doing fine cuts again,

You would have been better off sticking to small cuts right through the run, you will learn more and it will be easier to make good cuts, later on when you know what to expect from your still you can up the size, but for the moment stay small.

anyway took about 11 hours to do it all this is ridiculous time I know but i was going extremely slow trying to keep lowest temps possible ( i figured this would give best result) without ever really letting the distillate stop flowing at less than a drip a second until the end were the tails were, that slowed a bit to maybe 1 drip every 3 -4 seconds.

Yup thats ridiculous :wtf: but hell you learned something :handgestures-thumbupleft: You really dont need to go that slow, there is a fine line however between just slow enough and too fast. Try for something like a thin steady stream,just a bit faster than were the stream wants to break into fast drips. that should be a happy medium for you. You can pretty much run a T500 without looking at the temp, Just adjust the water flow to get that fine stream of spirit leaving the still.

is already filtered out doesn't need to be racked apparently, its fermented clear , can see to the bottom of the bucket has a yellow tint on it and is good to go so they say, just put straight into the boiler.

:think: First thought was its probably a pre fermented Turbo Wash, but that wouldn't work out very economical if you had to sell it, Wonder what these buggers are selling, a yellow tint sounds a bit TPWish, Did they tell you what the ABV of the wash was when you bough it?

Sweetness is usually associated with the heads

:text-+1:

[The Stig]

they said to them it smelt like meths a bit

When I was turbo washing and carbon filtering I had the same issue.
Started stripping and doing TPW and no filtering and everything was good :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Roger]

Hi,

New purchaser of T500 also. First run was a classic turbo - very smelly wash and not a great product.

Second was the triple distilled turbo. Definitely much better.

Then I tried Tomato Paste Wash after everyone on this site raving about it. And they do so with good reason!! Have now got 3 TPW washes going. Neutral smell, did cuts but couldn't tell hardly any difference so put them all back (yes I think I need to be more discerning but I couldn't really tell the difference, that's how good it was). Will try to leave my cuts breathing longer this time and then see if I can tell the difference. And cheap.

So after a few more TPW's I will be looking to mix it up a little more, but currently enjoying this one.

Hope that helps