Is this a new record...

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Is this a new record...

Postby Bundaboy » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:03 pm

...low?

Alcotec 48 - 8kg in 21 litres with airlock ON! bubbled away nicely for 10 days or more, cleared (as mud) with turbo clear (which doesn't ever seem to work for me without the carbon crap in the wash).

Triple distilled (2 strip runs) in air still - 50 mls foreshots chucked, 250 mls heads in feint jar, hearts/tails down to < 20% (I have given up on tail cuts for the Air Still).

Total yield: 2.4 litres @ 40% :wtf:

Not exactly what I was hoping for LOL, still $90 worth of drinkable whisky I suppose...

Personally I think 8 kg of sugar is too much, at least in 21 litres (recipe calls for 25L but my fermenters won't hold that with an aggressive ferment).

I really need a better hydrometer so I can effectively measure the ferment results (mine has a short scale for some reason).
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby WalterWhite » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:26 pm

There's got to be a new record here ....
I can't imagine anybody else has been using the forum for nearly four whole months and still trying to use Turdbo to make a high alcohol wash instead of using TPW or similar to make decent booze .... :angry-banghead:
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Darwin award » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:37 pm

BennyHiggo wrote:There's got to be a new record here ....
I can't imagine anybody else has been using the forum for nearly four whole months and still trying to use Turdbo to make a high alcohol wash instead of using TPW or similar to make decent booze .... :angry-banghead:

:whistle: .........
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby WTDist » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:25 pm

BennyHiggo wrote:There's got to be a new record here ....
I can't imagine anybody else has been using the forum for nearly four whole months and still trying to use Turdbo to make a high alcohol wash instead of using TPW or similar to make decent booze .... :angry-banghead:


:text-+1:

that is a record. i never used turdbo once i found this forum

and you have a macboka :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby woodduck » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:41 pm

Ease on guys,

He has posted in the hbs section. The title of that section says they can post there without getting a hard time.

If people want to use the hbs stuff they have the right to weather we think the stuff is crap or not. In time i recon he'll see the light but until then he should be able to feel comfortable posting in this section.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Andy » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:14 pm

Bundaboy wrote:Personally I think 8 kg of sugar is too much, at least in 21 litres (recipe calls for 25L but my fermenters won't hold that with an aggressive ferment).


not personally too much. its factually too much :handgestures-thumbupleft:
the specific gravity would be about 1.145. thats aiming for a alc content of 22ish% which is redonkulous and is not possible with normal yeast, and porbably not even possible with the high alco turbo
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Doubleuj » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:43 pm

woodduck wrote:Ease on guys,

He has posted in the hbs section. The title of that section says they can post there without getting a hard time.

If people want to use the hbs stuff they have the right to weather we think the stuff is crap or not. In time i recon he'll see the light but until then he should be able to feel comfortable posting in this section.

:clap: well said duck, who knows that he didn't have heaps of turbo left over and wanted to use it up while learning. And also taste is subjective.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby WalterWhite » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:22 pm

woodduck wrote:Ease on guys,

He has posted in the hbs section. The title of that section says they can post there without getting a hard time.


Fair point duck...
No bashing intended .... Just trying to stress the point that turbo is crap and using it purely to get a few extra % on the alcometer is pushing shit up hill.
Apologies for any offence ^:)^
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby scythe » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:20 am

Having not used turbo-yeast, only going on heresay, but i would say that your ferment got stuck before it finished properly.
For what ever reason the yeast died or ran out something they needed and stopped working.
What else did you put in the wash apart from water, sugar and turbo clear at the end?

Also 10days sounds like a long time for a turbo ferment.
What was the final SG reading before you distilled it?
What temps did it run at?

There have been a few stories lately of poor turbo performance, maybe the batch of yeast is a dud.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Bundaboy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:10 am

@BennyHiggo
@Darwin award
@WTDist

Now now chaps, this IS the HBS section after all :naughty:

You will, I am sure forgive me when you read the full story:

I have so far made TPW, weetbix and all bran, and (currently fermenting) the FFV (DAP based although I only have the wine nutrient version as yet), all good although as I have previously stated the TPW turned out too sweet for me, but I expect that to be resolved once I get my MacBoka up and running.

The alcotec was one I had been keeping for the boka initial run, however I have had some delays in getting that on line and, you guessed it, ran out of booze, all my fermenters were at least a week away (yeah bad organisation I know), so I decided to process the alcotec through my air still and use my swelling stock of feints for the boka initial run instead (sound like a plan?).

@woodduck

Thanks mate.

@Andy

Ok, well the alcotec instructions call for 8kg (6 for 48 hour 14%, 8 for 5 days 20%) in 25L, but yeah I would have reduced the amount accordingly if I had realised I was going to have to reduce the volume of the wash to suit the fermenter - too late by then, I would have split it into two ferments but my other fermenters were in use - I am starting to believe "you can't have too many fermenters", especially when you are experimenting with recipes etc. That's a lesson learnt anyway.

@ Doubleuj

Thanks mate, the alcotec certainly performs better, IMHO, than the Still Spirits turbo, however, I think that if you are using an air still the lower quality of a turbo compared to a T&P recipe is masked by the stills performance anyway, when I get the Boka up I expect the difference to be more noticeable.

@scythe
"i would say that your ferment got stuck before it finished properly.
For what ever reason the yeast died or ran out something they needed and stopped working."

It was bubbling away quite vigorously for 5 or so days and then quietly tapered off so, whilst a longer time than expected, it still seemed like a success. I fully expected the yeast to die before all of the sugar was used up but thought it would have made as much alcohol as it could in the volume it had, say it processed 7kg of the 8kg it should still have been up around the 19% mark (in theory).

"What else did you put in the wash apart from water, sugar and turbo clear at the end?"

That was it (the alcotec 48 as well of course).

"What temps did it run at?"

min 19C, max ~26C

"There have been a few stories lately of poor turbo performance, maybe the batch of yeast is a dud."

Very possibly because a previous batch, that I split into 2 (as I had a 9L Still Spirits fermenter only available), performed better.

I have entertained the possibility that using an airlock put too much strain on the yeast (if that's possible). Alcotec warns NOT to use an airlock but doesn't actually say why, I and everyone else assume that is because of the vigorous nature of the ferment, but maybe there is more to it.

In any case, despite the low yield the quality of the alcohol produced was pretty good, and perhaps that's the trade off, oft quoted, in action.

Thanks all.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby scythe » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:48 pm

Maybe next time have a source of nutrients your the yeast as well.
If it fermented well for 5days there wasn't a problem with infection, have you checked your still for leaks?
If you had a vapour leak that could explain the low yield.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Bundaboy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:46 pm

scythe wrote:Maybe next time have a source of nutrients your the yeast as well.
If it fermented well for 5days there wasn't a problem with infection, have you checked your still for leaks?
If you had a vapour leak that could explain the low yield.


I had, at one stage, convinced myself that that was indeed what was happening, however inspection of the head for holes, broken seals etc, showed nothing, in the end I placed a stainless steel bowl over the head to catch the air flow and I would have expected to see condensation if vapour was escaping through that way - there was nothing at all.

I have one other suspicion and that is that the distillate is exiting at too high a temperature such that the ethanol etc is not fully condensing, or is condensing but evaporating again in the collection jar. In the past I have been running the still at half power (roughly) but this one I ran at full power.

I think I need to:

a) Work out how to get a reasonable estimate of the fermented alcohol so I know what's actually going into the still (I mean I know how to do it but the stupid hydrometer I have has an abbreviated scale so I stopped using it - in this case though it would have told me the MINIMUM alcohol present at least, assuming the sugar turned into alcohol).

b) Determine if I am losing significant alcohol through the still by putting a known low wine mixture through the still and measuring the outcome. According to the HD calculator I am losing around 5L of 40% at 14% or 8L of 40% at 20% when triple distilling (2 strip runs and a spirit run) so that level of loss should be easily detectable.

The only reason I am pursuing this at all is that I was hoping to use air still for strip runs prior to using the boka for a spirit run. This would, at the very least, minimise the amount of boiler cleaning required which at this stage is looking problematical. So it it is the still then that brilliant idea is out the window.

(PS: The Alcotec 48 is supposed to contain all the nutrients etc it needs for the ferment - just add sugar and water).
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Darwin award » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:52 pm

sorry mate, my post was meant to be whistling on the sidelines....
I have 2 packets of turbo in my fridge that I'll post to you for free by way of apology ;-)
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Andy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:01 pm

i dont think i was clear when i said you added too much sugar...

that strain of yeast will die at about 13-14% alcohol content. with that sugar content you are going for about 22%. 22-13to14=8 to 9. Thats where your yield went. 8% of 21L is your 4ishL at 40% or your 9% loss is you 5ishL.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby rumdidlydum » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:03 pm

Darwin award wrote:sorry mate, my post was meant to be whistling on the sidelines....
I have 2 packets of turbo in my fridge that I'll post to you for free by way of apology ;-)


Good on you mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Bundaboy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:06 pm

Darwin award wrote:sorry mate, my post was meant to be whistling on the sidelines....


Oh! Then it's I that should apologise! Fancy putting an innocent bystander into the naughty corner with those 2 rascals ;-)
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby WTDist » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:55 pm

lol. dont take my post the wrong way either, im a nice guy. i just sometimes drink and type :obscene-drinkingdrunk: :techie-typing: :))

Like right now :laughing-rolling:
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Bundaboy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:14 pm

Andy wrote:i dont think i was clear when i said you added too much sugar...

that strain of yeast will die at about 13-14% alcohol content. with that sugar content you are going for about 22%. 22-13to14=8 to 9. Thats where your yield went. 8% of 21L is your 4ishL at 40% or your 9% loss is you 5ishL.


Sorry Andy, I may have muddied the waters a little when I gave the two sets of figures. The only reason I did that is because those are the options given when using a pack of Alcotec 48 - 14% with 6kg sugar in 2 days or 20% with 8kg sugar in 5 days - both in 21L water bringing it up to 25L.

What happened was I brought 8 litres of water to the boil turned back to a simmer, dissolved 8kgs of sugar into that with a big stir and several minutes of time.

Took that over to my 25L fermenter and poured it in, added cold water to my 21L mark - and that's when I had my "whoops" moment, I realised my numbers were for 25L (as per packet instructions not really mine) but that leaves no head room for the vigorous ferment! So I left it at 21L and crossed my fingers - to be honest, I understand the relationship between the sugar and the expected alcohol yield, I also have a layman's grasp of how various strains of yeast have different characteristics regarding sugar and temperature, BUT I am not sure how the amount of water used effects the outcome (beyond the obvious fact it effects the SG).

Now, you say "that strain of yeast will die at about 13-14% alcohol content" however Alcotec 48 claims to give 20%:



But even if the ferment delivered 13-14% that should give nearly 7L at 40% (according to HD alcohol yield calculator) - Including foreshots and heads/tails I am getting < 3L (at 40%).

I hope I am not completely off the planet with this, but if I am bear with me I beseech thee, I'll get it eventually.

I really appreciate the time everyone spends on issues like this, it is very much appreciated and I hope to contribute, in turn, down the track.
Last edited by rumdidlydum on Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby Bundaboy » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:28 pm

WTDist wrote:lol. dont take my post the wrong way either, im a nice guy. i just sometimes drink and type :obscene-drinkingdrunk: :techie-typing: :))

Like right now :laughing-rolling:


LOL I know, you have already helped me a great deal, and as I have previously said, it does not go unappreciated, and, without getting all mooshy, I think it's important to make sure people know that, it certainly doesn't hurt.

Ironically, I am, at this present moment, in a similar state, by the grace of the very batch I am complaining about. I think you previously stated something like "no batch is a total failure, if it's undrinkable, put it back in the next batch", in this case I didn't even have to do that!

BTW, the StillSpirits Irish Whiskey essence is not too bad...
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Re: Is this a new record...

Postby xcvator » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:44 pm

Bundaboy, get that MacBoka out of the packaging and set it up ffs, do your cleaning/vinegar/sacrificial runs. Then take the packing out, fill the boiler with wash,open the needle valve and fire up the heat. This will give you a "stripping run", (read how to strip with a pot still), try this and then you can throw the airstill away.
While the boka may not be the fastest distilling system around, it's pretty versatile :handgestures-thumbupleft: If I just use it as is I find it very slow, but I do stripping runs with a pot still head 1st then run it through the reflux @ 78.8c collects @90% @ about 2.5 litres an hour :-D
cheers Keith :greetings-waveyellow:
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